Printable Version of Topic

Click here to view this topic in its original format

Armed Assault Info Forums _ About our website _ Moderation Feedback Thread

Posted by: Wittmann Nov 5 2006, 12:27

In this thread you have the only place in the forums where moderation can be discussed freely and in public. Here you can post your questions regarding the rules, suggest any improvements or share your ideas toward making this forum a friendly and safe community for all ArmA fans or ask questions.

This thread however is not a place to flame moderation staff or spam, all posts must abide by forum rules and must discuss valid issues or raise a valid idea or point.

Last update to rules: 19th November 2010

Posted by: JdB Nov 7 2006, 11:36

First Rewan's OFP Comref was moved to http://forum.armedassault.info/index.php?showforum=10, it shows a link with that. Now that it was closed it shows another link, the one with the closed symbol before it. This is unlike the older IPB version of the OFP.info forum....a different link for every moderating decision....it's irritating.

Posted by: Cervo Nov 7 2006, 12:15

Well I don't think it's made to be moved to a new forum then removed back. Or the moderator moving it just needs to untick "keep link in previous forum".

Posted by: JdB Nov 7 2006, 14:50

That's not the problem. Right now on the OFP.info forums, a topic is moved, the forward link remains in the old section, and the "real" topic is in the right section. However on this forum, even in the section where Wittman moved it to, it shows a "Moved" thread link that links to the real thread which is right above it....makes no sense....

Posted by: Rewan Nov 7 2006, 17:44

I've try something on it: You still see it ? blink.gif

Posted by: JdB Nov 7 2006, 19:22

Nope.

Posted by: BigglesTrevor Nov 8 2006, 00:05

this is wrong threade realy but what i want to say is not worthy of a seperate thread. i tried making a account "trevorofcrete" and remembered my e-mail was bust, so went ahead and made this one. just thougt you should know so that account can be deactivated or blocked or somthing. its not authorised so maybe it will just disapear?

Posted by: Wittmann Nov 8 2006, 03:49

You need to activate your acocunt via email so it will not be listed

Posted by: JdB Nov 12 2006, 03:08

http://ofp.gamepark.cz/_hosted/digitalwarfarestudios/other/TableStretching.jpg becomes annoying really fast... __yuk.gif

Posted by: Serial Killer Nov 12 2006, 03:10

QUOTE(JdB @ Nov 12 2006, 04:08) *

http://ofp.gamepark.cz/_hosted/digitalwarfarestudios/other/TableStretching.jpg becomes annoying really fast... __yuk.gif


Hmmm blink.gif

It doesn't appear like that for me, but I'll see if I can get him to change it. blues.gif

Thanks for informing.

Posted by: JdB Nov 12 2006, 03:18

The problem I suspect is that he didn't put any spaces, otherwise it should be fine.

Posted by: LooseKannon Nov 12 2006, 03:35

I second that motion. Mods, time to shine rofl.gif

Cheers all, have a good one smile.gif

Posted by: BigglesTrevor Nov 12 2006, 03:38

QUOTE(Wittmann @ Nov 8 2006, 02:49) *

You need to activate your acocunt via email so it will not be listed


yes, i made a polite comment about it because it bugged me

Posted by: Wittmann Nov 12 2006, 04:34

I edited CaFs account so it should not be an issue

Posted by: Linker Split Nov 12 2006, 12:06

Is there any way to make this forum more fast? :huh:

Posted by: Serial Killer Nov 13 2006, 11:34

QUOTE(Linker Split @ Nov 12 2006, 13:06) *

Is there any way to make this forum more fast? :huh:


Should be faster now wink.gif

Posted by: d@nte Nov 13 2006, 11:54

yeah, for me now, the forum works fine, thx to the team. wink.gif

http://gifsmaniac.free.fr/toons/southpark/south014.gif

Posted by: Red Square Monkey Nov 13 2006, 22:35

Okay, some suggestions...

Wouldn't it be better to have the exact same layout, buttons etc. like the OFP forum? Just to show that the two forums are 'family' of each other (of course the buttons must be given a brownish color to fit in with this forum).

The current http://forum.armedassault.info/style_images/2/p_report.gif could be blurred a bit, by the way (don't know if they're the standard ones...). They're fugly.

And what about some kind of background image like on http://www.armedassault.com/william/? The chocolate-chip camo scheme would fit perfect in this forum smile.gif

Posted by: Wittmann Nov 14 2006, 02:02

This is the MODERATION feedback thread, not a website suggestion thread...

The buttons will be replaced later on, this si being worked on at the moment by Cervo and Serial Killer

Posted by: JB Nov 16 2006, 11:52

QUOTE(Wittmann @ Nov 5 2006, 11:27) *


This thread however is not a place to flame moderation staff or spam, all posts must abide by forum rules and must discuss valid issues or raise a valid idea or point.


Silly question but where are the forum rules?

Posted by: Serial Killer Nov 16 2006, 11:54

QUOTE(JB @ Nov 16 2006, 12:52) *

Silly question but where are the forum rules?


You can see them, once you enter any board, under your "location", in this case below the
"Armed Assault Info Forums > English > About our website" text.

I first had problems finding the rules too, they should be placed somewhere where people would actually see them. blink.gif

Posted by: JB Nov 16 2006, 12:29

Thanks SK,

I got a warning for my sig but I couldnt find the rules stating what the limits were etc.

Posted by: Wittmann Nov 16 2006, 13:55

Well look at the top of a forum.

See that big reddish box with 'forum rules' written in it? tongue.gif

http://img138.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clipboard01jx4.jpg

Compared tot he old forum which didn't have the said red box, I wouldn't think its hard to miss since is designed to draw attention to the link.

Posted by: King Homer Nov 16 2006, 15:22

I thought you must read the rules before registering? If not, we should add this, so no one can say: I didn't see them! _weapons_owned.gif

Posted by: da rat Nov 16 2006, 17:30

Perhaps like that system where you have to scroll to the bottom of a textbox before you can click OK. I used to get so f**cked by that laugh.gif

Posted by: Deadeye Nov 16 2006, 17:33

QUOTE(JdB @ Nov 12 2006, 03:08) *

http://ofp.gamepark.cz/_hosted/digitalwarfarestudios/other/TableStretching.jpg becomes annoying really fast... __yuk.gif


What kind of Browser are you using?
Firefox?

Posted by: JdB Nov 17 2006, 14:04

Yes.

If it is all typed without spaces, the computer can't distinguish seperate words, and thinks they are one, putting them on the same line, which causes the layout to stretch.

Posted by: Wittmann Dec 20 2006, 13:58

Avatar settings updated, now allows 100 x 100 to a max of 100kb filesize wink.gif

Posted by: LooseKannon Dec 20 2006, 14:12

Excellent. The plan is falling into place...

... by that I mean I can now use my specail reserved '100x100 only' avatars smile.gif

Posted by: Zipper5 Dec 22 2006, 10:56

Finally, thank God. Always had to resize my avatars only for these forums. hmmsmiley02.gif

Posted by: King Homer Dec 23 2006, 16:14

Ah, just noted lately and updated my avatar.

Posted by: Wittmann Mar 14 2007, 15:43

No feedback? No queries? Complaints? No one wants to know how far the plan for our world dominion forced through force of arms is going?

Dont be afraid to debate or ask in here, this is the one thread where 'no public discussion of forum moderation' is waived so long as its clean smile.gif

Posted by: JdB Mar 14 2007, 19:15

No news = good news I guess wink.gif

Posted by: Wittmann Mar 14 2007, 22:45

Either no news or they are still afraid tongue.gif

Posted by: Elliot Carver Mar 15 2007, 00:26

IM NOT AFRIAD!!

No feedback?
The sites awsome. Cervo keeps the site tip top. Admins keep everyone in line and we have a healthy amount of regular posters. Nuf said ^^

No queries?
Can i have access to the admin cp? tongue.gif
Can you alow html in posts so i can copy the intire forums into a thread and call it my own?

Complaints?
Its 11:30pm and there isnt any drink around...anymore

*runs away and hides before he gets struck down with PR*
tongue.gif carver

Posted by: Wittmann Mar 15 2007, 08:32

No, Mabye and Go buy some smile.gif

Posted by: BigglesTrevor Sep 1 2007, 15:43

i must say i found the pr'ing of brat to be a little harsh. i think with our community being its size (and also the thread in question) rules like the one mentioned can be turned a blind eye too aslong as they dont happen often. Perhaps brat deserved it as to the sheer cheekyness, however i dont feel the initial warning after pmasters post needed to really be made. it all seemed a bit....pointless. Its not asif pmaster did somthing that is a regular annoyance for the moderators (eg. posting a pic over 100kb). Its sort of like political correctness.

Posted by: JdB Sep 1 2007, 18:36

QUOTE(BigglesTrevor @ Sep 1 2007, 16:43) *
i must say i found the pr'ing of brat to be a little harsh. i think with our community being its size (and also the thread in question) rules like the one mentioned can be turned a blind eye too aslong as they dont happen often. Perhaps brat deserved it as to the sheer cheekyness, however i dont feel the initial warning after pmasters post needed to really be made. it all seemed a bit....pointless. Its not asif pmaster did somthing that is a regular annoyance for the moderators (eg. posting a pic over 100kb). Its sort of like political correctness.


It's as much a rule as those preventing warez and porn being posted on these forums, adverts being made for commercial services, and as such it will be enforced. Just because some rules may look innocent, or there is no moderator around to enforce them, does not mean they don't have to be followed, if a rule was not needed then it would not exist, and like Wittmann already explained we are quite happy with the current set of rules, and have no plans to alter them.

Brattaccas made a mockery of the forum staff by doing exactly what had been asked not to do only a few posts above. As such this rule applied:

QUOTE
3)Follow the instructions of the moderators
When an administrator or moderator asks you to do something or to stop doing something, please follow their instructions, if you're unhappy with their instructions feel free to PM them or another moderator or administrator. Do NOT discuss this in the thread itself, otherwise it will be considered spam and you will be punished forwith. You have the right to discuss your position with a moderator or an administrator so long as you remain unabusive and reasonable. Your punishment can be reduced or removed at the discretion of a moderator or administrator.


If you read this through, you will also see that discussing the moderators' decision like pMaster did is not allowed in the thread itself. Such things are preferably done by PM, or the Moderation Feedback Thread. It exists for a reason: to keep the other topics free of bickering smile.gif

Posted by: BigglesTrevor Sep 2 2007, 00:06

and that is why i have posted here and not there. I just fear with such a smalll community heavy strict by the rail moderation could put alot of people off. anyway ill leave the matter at that, its not really somthing to make into a big deal anyway.

Posted by: Elliot Carver Sep 2 2007, 02:11

Lo folks,

I have to agree with Trev here. Were a small community of 20 regular posting 'mature' friends who chat amongst ourselves and provide a service to those who have problems. We all know each other by first name, we know where we all live and we've known each other for years. Too the letter moderation will only upset and alienate people. Were all equal here, we have to be with such low numbers. I talked about my kicking from BiForums last week in the community chatter thread. It was against the rules but it was topical. We had a chat about it and later witty reminded us that it wast really allowd and that was that. Moderators need to reactively enforce the rules. They need to be sensible, communicate and support people as they are the backbone of the community there to ensure the smooth running of the forum.

The results of a mod team going wrong on a forum can be seen on the BIForums.


Lets not end up there.
thanks, Carver

Posted by: Wittmann Sep 2 2007, 02:36

Brat has got a 48 hour PR for posting outside moderation feedback again, if he had done it here, he would have been fine. At the end of the day, Brat never liked JdB so I think this is the issue.

Ive reminded everyone in our little secret world domination forum that moderators and admins consider the member, if they have committed the offence before and in what context the action was done before action will be taken, a PM and an edit into the post saying 'please dont do this again' will still be the preferred action for minor things as we know it works well here and we usually have no trouble with the regulars once this is done, you guys generally take it on board and dont do it again, which is great. I dont want to drive anyone away without good reason.

However, those who start a crusade outside this thread, will get our wrath, that's one rule we do enforce heavily. Thanks to those who did put their 2 cents in here. At the end of the day also, if your not happy with a moderation decision AFTER posting here, PM Deadeye or myself as the admin's and we will look into it and see if we can do anything, but no promises.

Posted by: Rewan Sep 2 2007, 11:33

I begin to think that there will be more rules than active members if JdB stay as an mod...


Well just a thought tongue.gif

Posted by: Wittmann Sep 2 2007, 13:45

Id rather him a mod than you though tongue.gif

Posted by: Rewan Sep 2 2007, 18:43

I don't care about being a mod or not:

I just want a peacefull forum...

Posted by: The Lord Sep 2 2007, 22:02

Oh dear god, not this again!

I think I am getting Dejavu!!

Posted by: JdB Sep 2 2007, 23:03

QUOTE
This thread however is not a place to flame moderation staff or spam, all posts must abide by forum rules and must discuss valid issues or raise a valid idea or point.


After reading the first post of this thread, it seems that the last few posts don't exactly fill the "requirement" for discussing valid issues or raising valid points. It's just sheer terror (understandable), through mild spam, not backed up by any kind of well formulated opinion making use of facts or well thought out sentences.

(Took me a while to come up with that cool.gif )

If you want to get anything done around here, you need to come up with something better put into writing, members of the moderating staff are notoriously lazy happy.gif

Posted by: Wittmann Sep 3 2007, 03:21

Personally aside from Brat launching a minor insurrection of his own I haven't seen much outside the usual going on. Much ado about nothing really. If you are following the rules or heed a 'please dont do that again' PM or edit, you've nothing to worry about...same place. If Homer had the time to stay on god knows he would probably be MORE of a hard ass, you've just been used to living in sin for too long with myself so busy tongue.gif

Now you all behave or we will actually LET JdB MEET Cervo, and we will also give Rewan moderation rights for a day and tell him to go nuts.
Dont make me turn this forum around... wink.gif

Posted by: brataccas Sep 4 2007, 12:34

QUOTE(BigglesTrevor @ Sep 1 2007, 15:43) *
i must say i found the pr'ing of brat to be a little harsh.


absaloutly.

QUOTE(BigglesTrevor @ Sep 1 2007, 15:43) *
i think with our community being its size (and also the thread in question) rules like the one mentioned can be turned a blind eye too aslong as they dont happen often.


I agree with this, I consider quite a lot of people here my actual friends because the joy of meeting people online means you can know a bit/lot about them and you may want to meet up, Ive actually met one person for real on ofp.info and plan to make it a second (bence from arma.eu) as he is coming to scotland) I havent met him for real but we know each well so when we meet it makes it easier to get to know even faster kinda thing, so the same rule applies to everyone here, If I got the chance to meet any of you I would do so. that PRing of me is like a group of people or friends ie the regulars in this forum, we have known each other for years online, biggles, witty, d@ve etc many others, even I consider witty a good m8 to talk to yet witty would rather PR me as if im some kinda spambot, so these stupid rules these mods have really ruin the forum sad.gif

QUOTE(BigglesTrevor @ Sep 1 2007, 15:43) *
Perhaps brat deserved it as to the sheer cheekyness, however i dont feel the initial warning after pmasters post needed to really be made. it all seemed a bit....pointless. Its not asif pmaster did somthing that is a regular annoyance for the moderators (eg. posting a pic over 100kb). Its sort of like political correctness.


It was a bit cheeky ye but I was proving a point that its silly warning someone for posting a single smiley, I mean omg, I actually told a few of my friends this (reallife) and they were in stiches of laughter smile.gif, assumed the ppl were weird geeks lol with literally nothing else to do in their short lives, but ye if you hadnt PRed me and let me be then you woudnt of got all this flak, its almost as though you were egging me on kinda thing, sad.

QUOTE(JdB @ Sep 1 2007, 18:36) *
It's as much a rule as those preventing warez and porn being posted on these forums, adverts being made for commercial services, and as such it will be enforced. Just because some rules may look innocent, or there is no moderator around to enforce them, does not mean they don't have to be followed, if a rule was not needed then it would not exist, and like Wittmann already explained we are quite happy with the current set of rules, and have no plans to alter them.


thats really sad when you look at that, because its as if the forum is treating its members as though they need their hand held constantly, this is a peaceful forum, and the rules are way too strong, hence why this forum could of had a lot of members, and its prob the reason why so many left ofp.info aswell, (before arma release etc)

quote: "Everything was ok until Lthunter came back"

not my words but ye, "they" have a point.

QUOTE(JdB @ Sep 1 2007, 18:36) *
Brattaccas made a mockery of the forum staff by doing exactly what had been asked not to do only a few posts above. As such this rule applied:
If you read this through, you will also see that discussing the moderators' decision like pMaster did is not allowed in the thread itself. Such things are preferably done by PM, or the Moderation Feedback Thread. It exists for a reason: to keep the other topics free of bickering smile.gif


proving a point ye. to show up how bad the forum is, rules wise.

Ironic how you say free of bickering when you just created more "bickering" when you PRed me, so as I said if you just let it drop there would be less mess smile.gif

QUOTE(BigglesTrevor @ Sep 2 2007, 00:06) *
and that is why i have posted here and not there. I just fear with such a smalll community heavy strict by the rail moderation could put alot of people off.


very true, this forum has a lot of potential if the staff werent so heavy handed, and happy trigger with the PR buttons smile.gif It probably "coudnt" put people off it HAS done so smile.gif

QUOTE(Elliot Carver @ Sep 2 2007, 02:11) *
Lo folks,

I have to agree with Trev here. Were a small community of 20 regular posting 'mature' friends who chat amongst ourselves and provide a service to those who have problems. We all know each other by first name, we know where we all live and we've known each other for years. Too the letter moderation will only upset and alienate people. Were all equal here, we have to be with such low numbers. I talked about my kicking from BiForums last week in the community chatter thread. It was against the rules but it was topical. We had a chat about it and later witty reminded us that it wast really allowd and that was that. Moderators need to reactively enforce the rules. They need to be sensible, communicate and support people as they are the backbone of the community there to ensure the smooth running of the forum.

The results of a mod team going wrong on a forum can be seen on the BIForums.


Lets not end up there.
thanks, Carver


I agree with all that, everyone must think im an idiot or spamming noob but not anymore apart from arma.eu for other reasons... BI forums are a shithole, its minging, cold and downright unfriendly, my first impressions of this forum was good until now, it has a warm feel to it, ppl u know etc, only to be ruined by the moderators themselves, not cool.

QUOTE(Wittmann @ Sep 2 2007, 02:36) *
Brat has got a 48 hour PR for posting outside moderation feedback again,


you are too kind, xmas come early?


QUOTE(Wittmann @ Sep 2 2007, 02:36) *
Brat never liked JdB so I think this is the issue.


Ive never said that and I never will, plz dont bullshit

QUOTE(Wittmann @ Sep 2 2007, 02:36) *
Dont make me turn this forum around...


maybe you should, it was much better that way.





Posted by: Wittmann Sep 4 2007, 14:23

Well the state I inherited OFP.info in begs to differ. Rules are rules. Its the way of the world. Agree with them, disagree with them...whatever. But they must be followed. Its not personal Brat, anyone who breaks the rules has to deal with the consequences. Maybe my view is thus as I come from family with a strong element serving in the Police? But regardless, in the real world, if you break the established laws of a society, you will be punished. You can say certain things, do pretty much as you wish, but there is a line. Its the same here. Id rather not PR you but on the same token, Im not going to let you off scot free (No pun intended) just because I like you.

Posted by: pMASTER Sep 4 2007, 14:24

Folks we must stay honest...We simply were not accustomed to moderation of this forum anymore. Some of the rules really appear to be totally pointless but one argument of Witty convinced me: We accepted the rules when we registered once.

Posted by: D@V Sep 4 2007, 15:29

While Wittmann does have a point, I have to agree with Bratty. There's a difference between enforcing the rules and running a personal vendetta. Do you seriously think that if it was say, Carver, who made that post he would have gotten the same level of punishment as Bratty?

Posted by: Wittmann Sep 4 2007, 15:37

If he pushed it after the first warning, yes. I dont make distinctions for repeat offenders. Hell, I like Bratty. It could have been anyone, for not using this thread for discussion a moderation decision AFTER being warned, 48 hours and only one WB is fairy lenient.

Posted by: pMASTER Sep 4 2007, 15:39

QUOTE(D@V)
While Wittmann does have a point, I have to agree with Bratty. There's a difference between enforcing the rules and running a personal vendetta. Do you seriously think that if it was say, Carver, who made that post he would have gotten the same level of punishment as Bratty?

Why a Vendetta?! What does JdB have against Bratty?

Posted by: Wittmann Sep 4 2007, 15:43

There is no vendetta. We believe in equality of evildoing.
If I believed JdB had a vendetta against anyone, he would not have been offered a moderation position. Those who get personal do not keep their job long.

Posted by: pMASTER Sep 4 2007, 16:17

Maybe D@V meant that Bratty as our Spam-Star is earmarked so to say...

Posted by: The Lord Sep 4 2007, 16:36

QUOTE(Wittmann @ Sep 4 2007, 15:43) *
There is no vendetta. We believe in equality of evildoing.
If I believed JdB had a vendetta against anyone, he would not have been offered a moderation position. Those who get personal do not keep their job long.



Surely you know he left his position of moderator at ofp.info not because he was finished but through heavy handed moderating?

Posted by: pMASTER Sep 4 2007, 16:37

QUOTE(The Lord @ Sep 4 2007, 17:36) *
Surely you know he left his position of moderator at ofp.info not because he was finished but through heavy handed moderating?


Don't want to gossip, but what has happened? That was before my time.

Posted by: JdB Sep 4 2007, 16:47

QUOTE(pMASTER @ Sep 4 2007, 17:17) *
Maybe D@V meant that Bratty as our Spam-Star is earmarked so to say...


You could also start to wonder why you called him "Spam-Star", there has got to be a reason in the way Brataccas posts that makes you call him that wink.gif

No one is punished more or less than any other member. If it had been pMaster (Server Team) quoting my request to stop posting one smiley replies and posting a single smiley in return, he would have gotten the same PR that Brataccas got.

If a moderator/administrator breaks the rules repeatedly and on purpose, we'd discuss it in the Moderator section of the forums (since giving WB and/or PR's is not always possible depending on usergroups). If done often enough, it may very well result in that forum staff member being replaced.

The only person that can do pretty much everything on this forum is Cervo, since he is paying for the costs of the server, licenses etc. If you aren't paying for all those costs you're going to have to follow the same rules that you agreed to when registering just like everybody else does.

Brataccas, the rules on this forum are already more relaxed, and just like on every other forum the rules that exist will be enforced. Some forums (without going into details) wouldn't send a polite request to change posting behaviour first like we do for all but the most serious offenses (posting warez, cracks, porn etc), but would switch to the "hamer-method" immediatly.

You can "Spam" in the "Chatter, Word Games & Jokes" section as long as it is in understandable English not containing any disallowed content (beforementioned warez, cracks, porn etc), flame(baiting), and is on-topic (except for the Community Chatter thread, which is by design a collection of all kinds of subjects). A single smiley adds nothing to a conversation whatever the topic may be.

The rules and moderating cannot be any more relaxed without degrading into the mess full of flaming kids that the old OFP.info forums were around 2002.

I left OFP.info because of a difference of opinion with Cervo, nothing to do with the way I moderated. People wanted me gone because I enforced the rules, and they weren't used to that. They thought they could make a change by childish means (flaming, insulting PM's etc). The Lord is one of those other people that didn't like that way of moderating, partially because the rules were written too strictly (edited from BIS forums), not necessarily the way I enforced them (by doing exactly what I'm doing now, enforcing the rules).

Posted by: Wittmann Sep 4 2007, 16:51

Yes, I am aware of what happened as I gained my position shortly thereafter and was in the community at the time. However;

1) People change and we are all adults now. Alot happens over time to change us or open our eyes.
2) We have 2 admins ABOVE JdB as moderator, so actions can be reviewed if deemed necessary and outcomes changed.
3) What happened is in the past and several years have gone by. This is a new community in a way and I think considering JdBs standing in the community, his dedication to it and his attitude, he is fit for the job and that is why he has accepted a trial period as moderator.

I also recall Lord that you were opposed rather vocally at this time to his actions, but, people change and I am not one to hold a grudge, especially in an internet community. Do you?
Because I would hate to see a group of people start kicking up a fuss over mistakes made in the past, when if anyone else had been appointed it would not happen.

At the end of the day finding the best person to replace Homer was my decision, and mine alone. So if anyone is to have any ISSUES, its with ME.

Posted by: pMASTER Sep 4 2007, 16:53

However, the question arises whether The Lord's statement has a true core. Again, I don't want neither to gossip nor to give offense, though it would be interesting to know the background.
edit
Ok I cut it out. Apparently the hatched is buried.

My personal theory is still that we simply were not accustomed to moderation of this forum anymore because CoPeTe and King Homer have become rare guests.

Posted by: The Lord Sep 4 2007, 16:55

QUOTE(pMASTER @ Sep 4 2007, 16:37) *
Don't want to gossip, but what has happened? That was before my time.



Ah yeah! it was quite some time ago! :

Here is a link to the topic. http://ofp.gamepark.cz/forum/index.php?showtopic=19755

I am sorry but I cant help but feel that way and worry that the same thing might happen again here. We have not so many members that we can insult as we used to on ofp.info so I think we need to be understanding to every last one of them. wink.gif

Posted by: JdB Sep 4 2007, 16:55

QUOTE(pMASTER @ Sep 4 2007, 17:53) *
However, the question arises whether The Lord's statement has a true core. Again, I don't want neither to gossip nor to give offense, though it would be interesting to know the background.


QUOTE
I left OFP.info because of a difference of opinion with Cervo, nothing to do with the way I moderated.


wink.gif

The exact reason is between Cervo and me, not related to the forum, and therefore quite simply put "none of your business" tongue.gif

Posted by: Wittmann Sep 4 2007, 16:55

I am often very busy, so to an extent this is true. I dont have enough time to overlook every part of the forum on a daily basis, and as such, with Homer having been gone several months, some things have slipped through the cracks and rules have not been enforced as vigorously as they would normally have been.

Posted by: pMASTER Sep 4 2007, 17:01

To be honest, King Homer was apparently worse last year. He did not only enforce the rules but was also very unfriendly. But it seems he had a kind of off phase, everyone has this from time to time, not his fault.

Well...I ought to join Wittys point of view. There's no use crying over spilt milk. We live in 2007, not in 2005.

Posted by: brataccas Sep 4 2007, 17:01

QUOTE(Wittmann @ Sep 4 2007, 15:37) *
Hell, I like Bratty. It could have been anyone,


thx, just hope you dont think I hate you or anyone else for that matter smile.gif, I can remember when I was having a real shit time, (almost suicidal! unsure.gif) with some issues id rather not talk about.. but Witty and I was on msn sometime, prob last year talking and he was an extremely good help, ill always remember that smile.gif

Posted by: pMASTER Sep 4 2007, 17:06

Good to hear that people in this forum close ranks and stick together. Though we get a bit offtopic here since the issue has been cleared, don't we? I don't want JdB to use his regained power...tongue.gif

Posted by: Wittmann Sep 4 2007, 17:07

As it is, we really are making a fuss over nothing. JdB is alot more measured in his responses now.

Homer was once very harsh as well, and at times, so have I, usually over at OFP.info, and we have had some terrible people come through also...we need to enforce these rules. Of course a members actions and response to a little slap on the wrist can often determine how we set about dealing with any actions they take against the rules in future...

And we are all human. We can, and will, make mistakes. Im dealing with some things at the moment myself and the urge to hit the nuclear ban button is growing tongue.gif

As always; follow the rules. Be polite. Show respect for one another. Act your age, not your shoe size, and we will all get along.

Look at the BIS forums. Look here.
Is it really so bad now? biggrin.gif

Posted by: pMASTER Sep 4 2007, 17:10

QUOTE(Wittmann @ Sep 4 2007, 18:07) *
Look at the BIS forums.


I was tempted to use my avatar there as well. I don't want to know what would happen then.

Posted by: brataccas Sep 4 2007, 17:11

anyone remember ollyboy?, lol this forum is uncomparable to BIS forum puking2.gif

Posted by: d@nte Sep 4 2007, 18:44

lt hunter-JDB has also evolved since ofp info. the past is the past. you should let to him a chance. wink.gif

my point of view:

- Cervo the father of the forum
- Witty the mother of the forum
- JDB the old granny, who is a little bit too much protective (like a granny is always)

biggrin.gif

Posted by: Rewan Sep 4 2007, 19:24

Why giving JdB a chance and not to me ?

Oh I know the answer: Because you are yourself rolleyes.gif

Posted by: pMASTER Sep 4 2007, 19:29

I fear the truth is you betrayed someones trust whilst JdB is just a son of a gun playing supercop. tongue.gif

Posted by: JdB Sep 4 2007, 19:38

Couldn't have said it better myself smile.gif

Posted by: Cervo Sep 4 2007, 21:06

QUOTE
Why giving JdB a chance and not to me ?


Rewan, you have to FIRST focus on studies and have good marks, that's the deal with Old Bear !

Posted by: Helping Hand Sep 4 2007, 22:25

QUOTE(Rewan @ Sep 4 2007, 19:24) *
Why giving JdB a chance and not to me ?

Oh I know the answer: Because you are yourself rolleyes.gif


Are you sure that Witty would trust you mellow.gif

Posted by: Wittmann Sep 5 2007, 04:18

Do I really have to answer that? wink.gif

Posted by: Rewan Sep 5 2007, 11:19

QUOTE
Rewan, you have to FIRST focus on studies and have good marks, that's the deal with Old Bear !



*Whristle*
You're not my mother and I really don't need two of them mellow.gif

QUOTE
Do I really have to answer that?


I will ask to IGod ohmy.gif

QUOTE
I fear the truth is you betrayed someones trust whilst JdB is just a son of a gun playing supercop.


stupid.gif I was young and stupid boppin2.gif

QUOTE
Are you sure that Witty would trust you


No, of course not happy.gif

Posted by: pMASTER Sep 5 2007, 11:49

QUOTE(Rewan @ Sep 5 2007, 12:19) *
stupid.gif I was young and stupid boppin2.gif


Although the rest of his post is rather pointless, you have to agree that he is right in this aspect. I mean, do we have a kind of prescription period for misconduct of staff members or what?
On the other hand I guess Cervo clearly pointed out the whats and whys of his deal with Old Bear.

Posted by: JdB Sep 16 2007, 19:12

QUOTE(pMASTER @ Sep 16 2007, 20:08) *
How long does it take for a warnblock to expire?


At least 3 months, provided you did not continue posting in the same way as before.

QUOTE(Helping Hand @ Sep 16 2007, 20:09) *
Where here or BI? BI is 6 months AFAIK.


BIS is also 3 months minimal.



@ Everyone: stop posting about the moderating outside of this thread, brataccas got a warning block for it, and I have seen several others that seem to be looking for one too...


Posted by: Rewan Sep 16 2007, 19:19

RWB don't count as normal WB ? unsure.gif

Posted by: JdB Sep 16 2007, 19:27

QUOTE(Rewan @ Sep 16 2007, 20:19) *
RWB don't count as normal WB ? unsure.gif


Your warninglist is so full that I had problems finding out which things you still have that WB for, and for which you had already been cleared. The one you still have is for spam, have you totally given up spamming over the last 3 months?

Posted by: D@V Sep 16 2007, 20:52

Is there any need for those policemen emotes? They seem a bit... yaknow... "I'm a moderator and your not! Ha ha ha!"

Or maybe that's just me...

Posted by: JdB Sep 16 2007, 21:33

QUOTE(D@V @ Sep 16 2007, 21:52) *
Is there any need for those policemen emotes?

Or maybe that's just me...


I guess people are expecting me to let some people off the hook because they're old-timers, veterans, however you wish to describe your early joindate, or friendship with other regulars. The rules are the same for everybody, and they will be enforced the same for everybody.

If I had used emotions (aka "feelings") in my decisions, I wouldn't have PR'ed Helping Hand, wouldn't have told pMaster to change his posting behaviour while cracking down on new people because I have no "emotional" connection with them (and Rewan would have been banned till 2028 tongue.gif ). That is simply not the way we moderate this forum. Brataccas got a PR from Wittmann because he discussed the moderating outside of the designated thread, just like I did with Helping Hand. There is no difference in the way we handle rule violations. The only difference is that Wittmann isn't online that much lately to enforce the rules, which makes him look like one of the "good guys".

QUOTE
3)Follow the instructions of the moderators

When an administrator or moderator asks you to do something or to stop doing something, please follow their instructions, if you're unhappy with their instructions feel free to PM them or another moderator or administrator. Do NOT discuss this in the thread itself, otherwise it will be considered spam and you will be punished forwith. You have the right to discuss your position with a moderator or an administrator so long as you remain unabusive and reasonable. Your punishment can be reduced or removed at the discretion of a moderator or administrator.


Meaning you follow the instructions regardless if it is Wittmann telling you, Deadeye or me. If you have a problem with that decision, you either PM the moderating staff or post about it in this thread. Anyone who does not is asked with a "please" to stop posting that type of content outside the designated thread. People openly rebelling against that or showing their complete lack or respect for the staff member will be dealth with appropriatly.

Posted by: Elliot Carver Sep 16 2007, 21:43

Lo folks,

Note: To avoid misconceptions of emotions or feelings - This post is written as a discussion. I'm miffed but attempting to solve the problem.

QUOTE
In this thread you have the only place in the forums where moderation can be discussed freely and in public. Here you can leave feedback on how you think moderation is going int he forums and suggest any improvements or share your ideas toward making this forum a friendly and safe community for all ArmA fans.

This thread however is not a place to flame moderation staff or spam, all posts must abide by forum rules and must discuss valid issues or raise a valid idea or point. Wittmann - First thread post - Nov 5 2006, 12:27


"share your ideas toward making this forum a friendly"

The single reason i bother to come here and post is because this board is friendly, relaxed and quiet. After Nemisis and Homer walked we were without a moderator. There were no problems what so ever. The occasional time someone posted in the wrong thread or spammed the regulars pointed out the mistake and we moved on. If there were wrong doings that required action Wittmann stepped in. For example the THC affair when i requested the thread be locked.

"must discuss valid issues or raise a valid idea or point."

Now, JdB you are a good guy. Your intelligent and calculated but i have to disagree with your method of moderating. This forum ran smoothly without flame or incident until you became a moderator. Surely this shows that this board does not need a moderator big brothering each and every post. The members of this board are mature enough to know where to draw the line on what is acceptable and what is not. What this board needs is a moderator who protects the forum from outside idiots, people who join only to cause trouble. The role of a moderator is to oversee the smooth running of the forum, something we seem to have lost touch with.

"must discuss valid issues or raise a valid idea or point."

We all must take a step back and start being sensible! We have already lost HH, a regular member. We are fast becoming the BIForums and if we continue down this path the board will ultimately loose more members, myself included!

Thank you for reading,
Luke

Posted by: D@V Sep 16 2007, 21:52

Personally, while I do agree with some of your points carver, I still believe that the given alternative would have been far worse.

And believe me, I know the given alternative. It was far worse.

Of course, I do think he do to stop using those policemen emotes... they're just... gah...

Posted by: JdB Sep 16 2007, 21:53

QUOTE(Elliot Carver @ Sep 16 2007, 22:43) *
Lo folks,

Note: To avoid misconceptions of emotions or feelings - This post is written as a discussion. I'm miffed but attempting to solve the problem.
"share your ideas toward making this forum a friendly"

The single reason i bother to come here and post is because this board is friendly, relaxed and quiet. After Nemisis and Homer walked we were without a moderator. There were no problems what so ever. The occasional time someone posted in the wrong thread or spammed the regulars pointed out the mistake and we moved on. If there were wrong doings that required action Wittmann stepped in. For example the THC affair when i requested the thread be locked.

"must discuss valid issues or raise a valid idea or point."

Now, JdB you are a good guy. Your intelligent and calculated but i have to disagree with your method of moderating. This forum ran smoothly without flame or incident until you became a moderator. Surely this shows that this board does not need a moderator big brothering each and every post. The members of this board are mature enough to know where to draw the line on what is acceptable and what is not. What this board needs is a moderator who protects the forum from outside idiots, people who join only to cause trouble. The role of a moderator is to oversee the smooth running of the forum, something we seem to have lost touch with.

"must discuss valid issues or raise a valid idea or point."

We all must take a step back and start being sensible! We have already lost HH, a regular member. We are fast becoming the BIForums and if we continue down this path the board will ultimately loose more members, myself included!


Nice to see someone taking the time to type out a well-thought through post, I don't agree with all points, but it's nice none the less.

The main problem is that alot of you are friends. Whenever I take action against one of you the, rest jumps on the bandwagon to drag their friend out of the "firing line". As I posted in the Moderator section of the forum, "I've seen this all before, more times than I care to remember, it's all good until they become the "victims" of the forum rules themselves, then they start to complain."

These forums cannot be like the BIS forums, as our rules are far more relaxed. The BIS forum staff enforces their set of rules, we enforce ours. It's simple maths 1+1=2, hard+enforcing vs relaxed+enforcing. Wittmann and Homer agreed on me being the new moderator because they had realised that the time moderators had to spend on the forum had come under the acceptable level, by which enforcement of the rules suffered. They solved this by appointing someone which they knew would bring the moderator enforcing of the rules back to it's early level (when the forum just started).

I used the "nutty policeman with light on the head" emoticon to bring some ... relaxedness to moderating, something to ease the message. If I really do "crack down" on something I certainly wouldn't be using such a smiley.



Like I use this one to ease someones' feelings over having their (quite possibly first ever) thread closed:


Posted by: Linker Split Sep 16 2007, 22:22

Personally, even if i hate him, I can assure that JdB is not a bad moderator... I like is way of acting... smile.gif
Don't see any envy in his moods

Posted by: The Lord Sep 16 2007, 22:24

The fact we are friends is the reason this forum is better than the BIS one. We are pretty tame here really, and we are a pretty small group also. I think it is unwise to alienate them.

Posted by: Elliot Carver Sep 16 2007, 22:27

Thank you JdB smile.gif I would agree with you there.
I think the deep point of this discussion should not be looking at the enforcement of the rules as a generalization but looking into which rules should be enforced and how. Personally I feel 72h PR for essentially posting in the wrong thread, is harsh. The problem could be sorted through editing by removing the text and asking for it to be reposted here. PRs and Warn blocks, i feel, should only be used when a major rule is broken. For example, the posting of elicit material or flaming. Everyone knows the major house rules and your right, we are all friends here. Proper rule breaking is a rare occurrence on the board and a sensible moderating style should reflect that smile.gif
cheers,
Carver

Posted by: d@nte Sep 16 2007, 22:31

i'm not against rules. because we need them.

but, at the same time. we are not any more child. (except Rewan, Brataccas). blues.gif

that would be more interesting to keep a moderation for adult. the BIS forum is a bad example. BIS forum= kindergarten (+ a dictatorship)

this is really boring to have a special topic for a special subject. As adults, we should be able to talk about various subjects in a same topic.

excepted maybe some really special subjects:

- wallpaper
- pictures.

but if we can't post a vid which could be an example for a discussion elsewhere than in the vid thread. that becomes crazy.

btw: sorry for english. i'm really tired today. sweatingbullets.gif

Posted by: JdB Sep 16 2007, 22:36

QUOTE(Elliot Carver @ Sep 16 2007, 23:27) *
Thank you JdB smile.gif I would agree with you there.
I think the deep point of this discussion should not be looking at the enforcement of the rules as a generalization but looking into which rules should be enforced and how. Personally I feel 72h PR for essentially posting in the wrong thread, is harsh. The problem could be sorted through editing by removing the text and asking for it to be reposted here. PRs and Warn blocks, i feel, should only be used when a major rule is broken. For example, the posting of elicit material or flaming. Everyone knows the major house rules and your right, we are all friends here. Proper rule breaking is a rare occurrence on the board and a sensible moderating style should reflect that smile.gif
cheers,
Carver


He didn't get a 72hr PR for just posting in the wrong thread on it's own. This case was exactly like that of Brataccas (last week if I remember correctly), someone broke the rules, a notice was posted correcting a member, and someone openly (in the wrong place) criticised the decision. In this particular case the prior notice was to stop criticising moderating decisions outside of the designated thread. That made it a 1+1 case, where prior actions had obviously failed to produce the desired result.

Again quoting myself from the Moderators section: "the only ones we really enforce (/crack down on) are those for image size, place of discussing moderation, porn, warez, cracks, MP cheats and spam outside of the Chatter, Word Games & Jokes section."

I personally don't agree with a PR + WB being given for posting a 100kb+ image in the Combat Photography (and I never even post images there!), but I never went around criticising the decision of a moderator to give that penalty (which is clearly mentioned for all to see) in public, especially not after a moderator has asked members no to do that.

QUOTE
The problem could be sorted through editing by removing the text and asking for it to be reposted here.


I did, I moved the content of two posts from pMaster and Helping Hand into the Forum Moderation Feedback thread where they belonged, and asked people to please stop doing that, Helping Hand criticised that decision in the Community Chatter thread none the less. Clearly not in the place where it should be. I can accept that people post in the wrong thread, either by mistake, or because they feel it belongs somewhere else, but what Helping Hand did is pure defiance, just like Brataccas a while ago.

QUOTE
but if we can't post a vid which could be an example for a discussion elsewhere than in the vid thread. that becomes crazy.


I left a few videos in the Community Chatter thread where they were, as that is the only place besides the Video thread to post a number of unrelated videos (while not breaking the forum rules for content). Certain dedicated threads exist so it is easier for members to find the content they like, and to be able to keep threads on-topic

Posted by: d@nte Sep 16 2007, 22:54

and if i post a music vid in the music thread ?





sorry, I only tease you wink.gif

btw. i agree with you for the 72 hrs pr. because you had warned everybody smile.gif

Posted by: Wittmann Sep 17 2007, 04:12

I believe it was a little harsh, but I agree with the issue and that it needed action, so Im reducing HH's PR by 24hr's and leaving the WB.

Lets not forget guys not that long ago when Homer was around in the old forums he was seen as the bad guy. Its only his long absence and apathy when he was around that saw a relaxation in things being dealt with, and due to timezones, by the time I roll around here often the issue has been resolved or Im acting in the past tense so people are not so hot under the collar when I get round to beating them with a stick.

Just use this thread for moderation discussion, that is one thing that gets my goat as much as clans signing up and posting huge images and sigs everywhere in their recruitment post before they bugger off. Its something we will enforce.

Posted by: pMASTER Sep 17 2007, 14:01

Maybe it should be mentioned in the rules how long a warnblock will be valid once given...Just to avert any further stir caused by a simple question.
And if you ask me, it makes more sense not to simply delete posts who don't completely violate the rules in a very serious way. Member should be able to see what to post and what to post not.

Posted by: Wittmann Sep 17 2007, 15:07

I agree there. Action ---> reaction, unless its porn or something disgusting I try not to delete posts

For all those who believe JdB is the root of all evil heres some stats for you;

Wittmann
148 actions performed as moderator

King Homer
93

Deadeye
64

Cervo
51

Rellikki
38

Flyer
20

JdB
20

So JdB is equal to Flyer, he does not seem so evil now does he? tongue.gif

Posted by: D@V Sep 17 2007, 15:19

I dunno, Flyer's pretty evil...

Posted by: pMASTER Sep 17 2007, 15:30

@Wittmann

Mock me, but aren't site team members supposed not to moderate?

Posted by: Wittmann Sep 17 2007, 15:49

Yep, most likely was in the German section or for editing posts ect. The board tally does not differentiaite between moderation actions that are enforcing a rule or just editing something using the moderation functions wink.gif

Posted by: pMASTER Sep 17 2007, 15:57

Relikki? In the German section?

edit
Nevermind, I should read to end in the future.

Posted by: JdB Sep 17 2007, 16:51

QUOTE(pMASTER @ Sep 17 2007, 15:01) *
Maybe it should be mentioned in the rules how long a warnblock will be valid once given...Just to avert any further stir caused by a simple question.
And if you ask me, it makes more sense not to simply delete posts who don't completely violate the rules in a very serious way. Member should be able to see what to post and what to post not.


I can't move posts, "Move post" is not in my list of "Moderation Options" (neither is "Split Topic", so that wasn't an option either). Obviously either would have been a better option than deleting them and moving the content over to the Moderation Feedback thread. If I had left the messages in the Community Chatter thread, chances are people would still have commented on them, even if we had asked them not to.

QUOTE
Maybe it should be mentioned in the rules how long a warnblock will be valid once given...Just to avert any further stir caused by a simple question.


That is the problem, we can't give a more or less accurate time, as it fully depends on the member him/herself. We try to remove any blocks given for non-serious offenses, while serious offense blocks may very well stay there forever (racism, porn, warez, MP cheats etc, if they don't result in a direct ban that is). For non-serious blocks it depends on the members' behaviour in the months since the block was given. If someone has been given a block for repeated spamming, than that block will stay there until the members has proven to us that he has stopped spamming months ago, thereby showing an improvement in his posting behaviour.

I am considering to remove Rewan's block, since I haven't seen him spamming anymore outside of the Chatter, Word Games & Jokes section, it depends on his behaviour.

Posted by: Wittmann Sep 17 2007, 18:04

TBH I usually forget about the blocks, way to much going on to remember when I gave them out and why...

Posted by: JdB Sep 17 2007, 18:22

QUOTE(Wittmann @ Sep 17 2007, 19:04) *
TBH I usually forget about the blocks, way to much going on to remember when I gave them out and why...


That's what the warninglogs are for, I click them on occasion to see when people got theirs.

Posted by: Wittmann Sep 17 2007, 18:23

I usually think 'what a pretty orange block' and bypass that tongue.gif

Posted by: Rewan Sep 17 2007, 21:39

@Jdb

It was because I've used something from mod options... I've asked to Witty if I can but he was drunk ! ohmy.gif
So he answered me "Yes" then forgotten that xD

Other WB are from the little shitty war between CoPTe and me xD

Posted by: JdB Sep 17 2007, 22:19

QUOTE(Rewan @ Sep 17 2007, 22:39) *
@Jdb

It was because I've used something from mod options... I've asked to Witty if I can but he was drunk ! ohmy.gif


No, it was also because you spammed dedicated threads. Anyway, it's gone now, don't make it have a comeback wink.gif

Edit: also one for BloodOmen removed.

Posted by: Rewan Sep 18 2007, 11:53

Thanks smile.gif

Posted by: Elliot Carver Sep 21 2007, 21:23

lo folks,

*draws line under previous topic biggrin.gif*
____________________

I have a few questions and a suggestion:

1. JdB noted in the ArmA II thread that VBS discussion was disallowed on the board but it does not state that clearly on the rule sheet. May i recommend we update the rules to show this please? smile.gif

2. Ownership and responsibilities of Mod threads. Something id like to clear up in my mind at least. Who governs direction of chat in mod threads ie: off topic? Also what responsibilities / moderation options does the mod thread owner have/hold over the thread?


cheers folks
Carver

Posted by: JdB Sep 22 2007, 00:48

QUOTE(Elliot Carver @ Sep 21 2007, 22:23) *
lo folks,


I have a few questions and a suggestion:

1. JdB noted in the ArmA II thread that VBS discussion was disallowed on the board but it does not state that clearly on the rule sheet. May i recommend we update the rules to show this please? smile.gif

2. Ownership and responsibilities of Mod threads. Something id like to clear up in my mind at least. Who governs direction of chat in mod threads ie: off topic? Also what responsibilities / moderation options does the mod thread owner have/hold over the thread?


cheers folks
Carver


-While I wouldn't mind having a dedicated VBS thread in OT Discussions, it is against site policy (IIRC, our old host didn't want anything but BIS news being posted, discussed etc). I don't know if it's still the case since we switched hosts for this site, I'll ask Cervo. The rules don't precisely state many more things, because if we would determine every allowed and disallowed subject into detail, this forum would be a jail. Whether it is allowed or not is partially left upto the moderator in question. In the right context we might allow a subject that might otherwise be disallowed (i.e. a thread about a battling MP-cheats with anti-cheating system for ArmA that does not include posting (part of) the cheat or directions on how to get them). It's just written in the rules as "no talking about MP-cheats", but under specific circumstances it is allowed. I did moderate one such thread (that's how I got the example), as part of the code had been posted, but the idea was ok imo. An extensive set of rules is nice, but similar to Ai algorithms, a decent brain will beat it most of the times.

-Topics, I suppose, belong to their original creator, but can be overruled by a leader of the mod in question, if he wishes the topic he did not create closed, edited to remove false information or stolen links etc. It is after all his intellectual property being discussed/shared with the world.

Posted by: JdB Sep 22 2007, 23:50

I've talked to Cervo, and therefore I can decree:

-No VBS thread;
-No VBS information
-No VBS discussion;
-No VBS questions
-No VBS pictures;
-Or anything else related to VBS.

All above with the freedom of "none what so ever" wink.gif

"VBS" being "Virtual Battle Space", regardless if it's version 1, 2, 666 etc.

We had a thread related to VBS (not actively recently, but to anticipate on a member actually using the Search button), it has been locked.

The rules will hopefully be updated soon to expand on the "No VBS" rule.

Posted by: Elliot Carver Sep 23 2007, 00:53

Cheers JdB and Cervo for clearing that up smile.gif
Carver thumbsup.gif

Posted by: JdB Sep 23 2007, 11:28

http://forum.armedassault.info/index.php?showtopic=923 of the rules regarding VBS. Read it, remember it, meditate on it for all we care, as long as you don't post about VBS we won't have to unleash nasty consequences naughty.gif

Posted by: Wittmann Sep 23 2007, 13:01

If you do we track you like an animal, tranq. you, bundle you into a container bound and ship you direct to Cervo who will do many wicked things to you, like make you listen to French rap and then let Rewan talk to you for 48 hours straight while your gagged. Thats only the beginning.

Posted by: BigglesTrevor Oct 2 2007, 09:59

hey guys, just want to comment on the closure of the WW2 grenade box (http://forum.armedassault.info/index.php?showtopic=953) . The forum rules clearly state

QUOTE
7)Do not start threads relating to discussions on other boards


What happens in this forum should stay in this forum and vice versa, conversations other than those strictly relating to ArmA matters should not be brought into these forums from others.


JdB has closed this thread due to
QUOTE
Reason being that you open a thread like this regularly on forums that I visit


Surly Rule 7 of forum conduct should also apply to the moderation. If somone has a banned account on the BI forums we dont immediatly ban them here.

It also seems ridiculious to me that a moderator should close a thread in the addon section becuase he feels there is a lack of dedication to the project from the person in question. To me that is irrelevant.

Sorry to have to bring this up but it really bugged me.

Posted by: d@nte Oct 2 2007, 12:23

i agree with JDB. because Gijoe begins a lot of stuff, and each time. this is "i don't know how to ...., i can't do .... etc etc etc etc etc)

he should stop to ask for help and start to learn with all the links given by a lot of members.

if he wants some help, np. but he needs to begin something. make an uvmapping for a crate is not difficult. and he can find a lot of wood textures with google.

and if he wants really some help. we have a topic "Modeling/Texturing Problem Thread". i would be happy to explain to him some things. but i don't want to make the job for him

Posted by: D@V Oct 2 2007, 12:54

I don't agree 100% with JdB, but I do disagree with Biggles, I think if someone was banned from somewhere like the BI Forums for excessive spamming and the like we should be more careful with them here.

I mean, if Madcow, Fatcroc or skullhunter signed up here, you wouldn't expect moderators to ignore their performances on OFP.info, would you?

Posted by: pMASTER Oct 2 2007, 13:17

As far as I'm concerned I don't buy grounds like that, and please not because it was JdBs decision.
We shouldn't have preemptive measures in our sleeves or punish someone for a violation of rules that happened somewhere else, we are not the European Union.

Posted by: Deadeye Oct 2 2007, 14:32

1st of all as D@nte pointed out we do have a special thread for modeling/texturing problems where "our" modellers are willing to help anyone who is experiencing problems.

2nd : He was also informed about various basics and modeling tutorials in our forums, here are a few examples :


http://forum.armedassault.info/index.php?showtopic=878&hl= (linker pointing him to basic tutorials)

http://forum.armedassault.info/index.php?showtopic=684&st=40 (he tells new members of his mod to learn texturing/modeling using brssebs tuts)

http://forum.armedassault.info/index.php?showtopic=723&hl=brsseb&st=20 (me telling him how to learn modeling in ofp/arma)

The decision to close down the thread was correct, it wasn't the first time Joe was pointed to learn the basics after demanding for someone to do the major work for him , which leads to the fact, that ignoring several advises and continuing to ask the "same" stuff can be considered as spam.

I'll comment on the BI stuff later, don't have time atm

Posted by: JdB Oct 2 2007, 16:51

QUOTE(BigglesTrevor @ Oct 2 2007, 10:59) *
If someone has a banned account on the BI forums we don't immediately ban them here.

It also seems ridiculous to me that a moderator should close a thread in the addon section because he feels there is a lack of dedication to the project from the person in question. To me that is irrelevant.


I've seen him posting this type of thread again and again, on forums including this one (which falls under "forums I visit regularly"), and that is what the decision is based on. The users reluctance to learn from the advice by senior addonmakers proves it is justified that I closed that thread. As Deadeye pointed out, please do some research into someone's posting behaviour before making accusations. We do not allow 20 Community Chatter threads, so why should we allow several ones about GIJOE94 asking someone to texture something, getting help on texturing and ignoring it, after which creating another thread?

If I have re-read my post correctly, the only time I mentioned "BIS forums" was in the following sentence: "On the BIS forums people have suggested that you read tutorials and try to make textures to practice."

That was not the reason I closed the thread, that was my advice to him to make use of the help provided by other people, I closed the thread because he keeps making threads asking for help, but ignores when people don't give him the help he expects (sitting in a chair, seeing all the work on "your" mod being done by others). I've seen people linking to threads on the BIS forums when they needed help regarding a certain subject. Do we need to rehash everything just because it wasn't said on our own forums? Do I need to start handing out warning blocks to everyone that links to a forum outside of this forum? I think not. The BIS forums are bigger and has many more active addonmakers posting on it. He has ignored help on both forums to help him to learn how to texture, the new topic being nothing but a rehash of the previous one. GIJOE94 asking for help on making a mod/addon, but not wanting to put in the effort himself.

I was trying to give him advice, but if people just want cold, emotionless moderating from me, that is possible to. The rest can be found in d@nte's post above.

Posted by: D@V Oct 2 2007, 19:40

And yet, we have the .info factbook which is basically a second chatter thread! tongue.gif

Hooray for Hipocracy!

Posted by: JdB Oct 2 2007, 19:55

QUOTE(D@V @ Oct 2 2007, 20:40) *
And yet, we have the .info factbook which is basically a second chatter thread! tongue.gif

Hooray for Hipocracy!


That is because people made it into that. After reading through it, it's not that off-topic, most of it still deals with the sadistic, perverted daily activities of the Team.

Hooray for PR'ed, or otherwise violated members that spam the Moderation Feedback Thread with sarcasm... rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Kenwort Nov 14 2007, 08:33

Guys i want to know why BHD MOD thread is closed? biggrin.gif Is that by mistake or we have done something wrong here?

Posted by: JdB Nov 14 2007, 17:12

QUOTE(Kenwort @ Nov 14 2007, 08:33) *
Guys i want to know why BHD MOD thread is closed? biggrin.gif


It was and is still open ...

Posted by: Impale_that_Lee Nov 14 2007, 20:44

Chicken and here again ? But why have you banned him here too ? I thought that his "crime activities" ( naughty.gif ) were according only to ofp.info blink.gif

Posted by: JdB Nov 14 2007, 20:57

QUOTE(Impale_that_Lee @ Nov 14 2007, 20:44) *
Chicken and here again ? But why have you banned him here too ? I thought that his "crime activities" ( naughty.gif ) were according only to ofp.info blink.gif


He lied to Deadeye, flamebaited Site-team members and had 4 different accounts on OFP.info. He should have been banned already.

Posted by: Rewan Nov 15 2007, 13:19

Question:
Is Swearing allowed in these forums ?

Posted by: JdB Nov 15 2007, 17:26

QUOTE(Rewan @ Nov 15 2007, 13:19) *
Question:
Is Swearing allowed in these forums ?


As long as it's not directed at anyone or any group. For instance "I've had a shitty day" is allowed, saying "you shithead" is not. I personally replace the a, e, i, o and u out of such words with a *, like "sh*t". It depends on the context in which it is used.

Posted by: JdB Nov 17 2007, 00:07

The http://forum.armedassault.info/index.php?showtopic=1044&st=0#entry24090 have been updated to include a notice about signature violations, and more specifically single elements that exceed 100 pixels in height. Some people have far too much text in their signatures. Using Quote tags is not allowed since it takes up too much space.

PMs have also been sent to some prominent offenders.

Posted by: pMASTER Nov 18 2007, 21:23

Why has http://forum.armedassault.info/index.php?showtopic=34 thread been closed?

Posted by: Linker Split Nov 18 2007, 22:36

QUOTE(pMASTER @ Nov 18 2007, 21:23) *
Why has http://forum.armedassault.info/index.php?showtopic=34 thread been closed?

maybe someone accidentally closed it sweatingbullets.gif

Posted by: D@V Nov 18 2007, 23:19

The music threads been closed too, what's up with that? ohmy.gif

Posted by: JdB Nov 18 2007, 23:35

We got a question about the BHD thread being closed as well a few days ago. Maybe someone less than perfect in English is messing with his moderation options, or someone accidentally lost the login data/logged in on a public access computer that had a keylogger on it. Deadeye can check who did it.

Posted by: Helping Hand Nov 18 2007, 23:36

Did someone accidentally lock it?

Posted by: JdB Nov 19 2007, 00:15

Rather hard to do that, you need to scroll down to the bottom of the page, and select "Close this topic" from the "Moderation Options" drop-down list, or you select it from a drop downlist in the posting options for a new post. NorwayTiger and BlackScorpion have none, so that's a little hard to do wink.gif

After having Cervo consult the admin log, we've determined that the threads have been closed through Jynx's account.

Posted by: Helping Hand Nov 19 2007, 00:17

I'm thinking shared PC issues. JynX doesn't seem the one to faf about with those sort of powers.

Posted by: JdB Nov 19 2007, 00:29

QUOTE(Helping Hand @ Nov 19 2007, 00:17) *
I'm thinking shared PC issues. JynX doesn't seem the one to faf about with those sort of powers.


Yeah, so do I, that's why I specifically said through his account, so as not to lay blame with anyone tongue.gif

After consulting with Cervo, the moderating staff (consisting of Wittmann, Deadeye and myself) has decided over the last few weeks has decided that the moderating rights of Site-team will be removed once an admin has time to remove them. They were for extreme emergency uses only, which has never materialized, and if they do, the moderating staff is more than enough to handle with it, The danger of so many (the Site-team group is rather big) people with Super-mod moderating rights on the forums is just too big.

Posted by: Impale_that_Lee Nov 19 2007, 07:29

Don't look at me, I already got your message, and Iam not so stupid to close threads WITHOUT reason blink.gif

Posted by: D@V Nov 24 2007, 18:11

I think the forum should change the rule on image sizes. People are posting images over 100kb simpley by accident rather by malicious intent. The only people who are really getting bothered by it are... well... Wittman.
I mean, the only way you can really get an image of what would be considered a decent size right under 100kb is to either make it really tiny or really bad quality. Or a .gif. None of them are worth considering. We should either scrap the rule or up the limit a bit to either 150 or 200kb. 100kb is far too small for most images right now, I'm sure a lot of people would agree with me there.

I'm not really discussing the rule here, I'm just trying to say that this tempory moderator action is just... well... stupid. Or at least reactionary. We shouldn't be simpley saying that X, Y and Z are the rules, and it doesn't matter how little sense they make, they're being enforced regardless of how outdated they are. I mean, if I shot a scotsman in York because he had a Bow and Arrow then I strongly doubt the police would simpley say "yeah, that's ok I guess, I mean, it is legal". Is it really the way we want to be were rules are being followed with, what is to be quite frank, a sort religious devotion? Especially if it's something like the 100kb rule. I mean, it's not like it's massively offending anyone by posting images a bit above 100kb by accident (that is, ignoring the content of the image). When people are breaking a rule by accident then maybe it's a sign that the rule's a problem, not the people breaking it?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that these "Tempory Moderator Actions" are really just a bit excessive. If a rule's flawed, then enforcing it in a near religious manner isn't going to help anyone.

Posted by: Linker Split Nov 24 2007, 18:20

QUOTE(D@V @ Nov 24 2007, 18:11) *
I think the forum should change the rule on image sizes. People are posting images over 100kb simpley by accident rather by malicious intent. The only people who are really getting bothered by it are... well... Wittman.
I mean, the only way you can really get an image of what would be considered a decent size right under 100kb is to either make it really tiny or really bad quality. Or a .gif. None of them are worth considering. We should either scrap the rule or up the limit a bit to either 150 or 200kb. 100kb is far too small for most images right now, I'm sure a lot of people would agree with me there.

I'm not really discussing the rule here, I'm just trying to say that this tempory moderator action is just... well... stupid. Or at least reactionary. We shouldn't be simpley saying that X, Y and Z are the rules, and it doesn't matter how little sense they make, they're being enforced regardless of how outdated they are. I mean, if I shot a scotsman in York because he had a Bow and Arrow then I strongly doubt the police would simpley say "yeah, that's ok I guess, I mean, it is legal". Is it really the way we want to be were rules are being followed with, what is to be quite frank, a sort religious devotion? Especially if it's something like the 100kb rule. I mean, it's not like it's massively offending anyone by posting images a bit above 100kb by accident (that is, ignoring the content of the image). When people are breaking a rule by accident then maybe it's a sign that the rule's a problem, not the people breaking it?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that these "Tempory Moderator Actions" are really just a bit excessive. If a rule's flawed, then enforcing it in a near religious manner isn't going to help anyone.

I agree with you m8 ohmy.gif

Posted by: NeMeSiS Nov 24 2007, 18:37

So do i, the 100kb rule is ancient and the percentage of 56k users is really small nowadays. Just because the BI forums dont change it doesnt mean we shouldnt.
(Hell, 56k'ers cant download the addons anyway tongue.gif )

Posted by: Helping Hand Nov 24 2007, 18:58

If you were to visit AR15.com you'd have a seizure they don't have limits mellow.gif I agree with raising the limit to 150KB but we all know that the site team won't change the limit. It's set in stone.

Posted by: Deadeye Nov 24 2007, 19:03

QUOTE(D@V @ Nov 24 2007, 18:11) *
I think the forum should change the rule on image sizes. People are posting images over 100kb simpley by accident rather by malicious intent. The only people who are really getting bothered by it are... well... Wittman.
I mean, the only way you can really get an image of what would be considered a decent size right under 100kb is to either make it really tiny or really bad quality. Or a .gif. None of them are worth considering. We should either scrap the rule or up the limit a bit to either 150 or 200kb. 100kb is far too small for most images right now, I'm sure a lot of people would agree with me there.

I'm not really discussing the rule here, I'm just trying to say that this tempory moderator action is just... well... stupid. Or at least reactionary. We shouldn't be simpley saying that X, Y and Z are the rules, and it doesn't matter how little sense they make, they're being enforced regardless of how outdated they are. I mean, if I shot a scotsman in York because he had a Bow and Arrow then I strongly doubt the police would simpley say "yeah, that's ok I guess, I mean, it is legal". Is it really the way we want to be were rules are being followed with, what is to be quite frank, a sort religious devotion? Especially if it's something like the 100kb rule. I mean, it's not like it's massively offending anyone by posting images a bit above 100kb by accident (that is, ignoring the content of the image). When people are breaking a rule by accident then maybe it's a sign that the rule's a problem, not the people breaking it?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that these "Tempory Moderator Actions" are really just a bit excessive. If a rule's flawed, then enforcing it in a near religious manner isn't going to help anyone.

As I already told you from my point of view the temporary moderation action made sense I've seen fewer breaches in the rules and if someone gets punished one time he'll check his images twice before he uploads some more.

But you guys have a point there.... 100kB are not much nowadays .... We'll discuss it wink.gif

Posted by: JdB Nov 24 2007, 19:39

QUOTE(Deadeye @ Nov 24 2007, 19:03) *
As I already told you from my point of view the temporary moderation action made sense I've seen fewer breaches in the rules and if someone gets punished one time he'll check his images twice before he uploads some more.

But you guys have a point there.... 100kB are not much nowadays .... We'll discuss it wink.gif


Same here, far less offenders since we started using it.

And yes, it could be increased to something like 150kb. The problem is that you, or anyone else for that matter will be back here again next month to protest about people getting PR'ed for images over 150kb, the month after that for 200kb etc. Each time we relax that rule, less people will keep watching the filesizes of the images that they post = more PR's.

The only thing we have set in stone is that we want to make Helping Hand's forum experience as nasty as possible biggrin.gif

Posted by: Linker Split Nov 24 2007, 19:51

QUOTE(JdB @ Nov 24 2007, 19:39) *
Same here, far less offenders since we started using it.

And yes, it could be increased to something like 150kb. The problem is that you, or anyone else for that matter will be back here again next month to protest about people getting PR'ed for images over 150kb, the month after that for 200kb etc. Each time we relax that rule, less people will keep watching the filesizes of the images that they post = more PR's.

The only thing we have set in stone is that we want to make Helping Hand's forum experience as nasty as possible biggrin.gif

well, times are changing, in 1 year you could change again that rule you don't know that tongue.gif

Posted by: D@V Nov 24 2007, 20:03

QUOTE(JdB @ Nov 24 2007, 18:39) *
Same here, far less offenders since we started using it.

And yes, it could be increased to something like 150kb. The problem is that you, or anyone else for that matter will be back here again next month to protest about people getting PR'ed for images over 150kb, the month after that for 200kb etc. Each time we relax that rule, less people will keep watching the filesizes of the images that they post = more PR's.

The only thing we have set in stone is that we want to make Helping Hand's forum experience as nasty as possible biggrin.gif


It's not a matter of repeatedly relaxing the rule, I see where you're coming from, but this isn't something like discussing illegal software or posting links to explict images (which some moderators seem to be doing more of then most members, you know who you are!). This is a rule that is outdated. It made sense when it was put in place because the majority of people still had 56k modems. But that was almost 6 years ago! Back then 30mb would take about an hour to download. The fact is, most people who use this site right now, don't have 56k modem. Hell, most people on the internet don't, I'd be surprised if a single person on these forums had a 56k modem, unless they were a collector of old computer equipment. People obeying this rule isn't helping anyone. As I'm sure I've already said, unless it's hugely over 100kb, like, say, a 2mb png, then it's not really hurting anyone posting a picture above 100kb. The moderators aren't helping anyone by enforcing they rule, they aren't removing anything that's hurting anyone and they certainly aren't doing what should be done by enforcing it like it's the word of God delievered unto us on a silver chariot pulled by 1,000 virgins.

Posted by: Helping Hand Nov 24 2007, 20:34

I agree at the time the rule helped people but now for the larger majority of us it's just an outdated archaic rule that hinders us to make us either use worse quality pictures or split them into halves or whatever.

Posted by: JdB Nov 24 2007, 22:44

QUOTE(Helping Hand @ Nov 24 2007, 20:34) *
I agree at the time the rule helped people but now for the larger majority of us it's just an outdated archaic rule that hinders us to make us either use worse quality pictures or split them into halves or whatever.


Now that you mention it, I was going to suggest to limit the number of files for each "picture" to 1 by increasing the maximum allowed image-size slightly biggrin.gif

Posted by: Wittmann Nov 25 2007, 07:29

The rule will be discussed and put under review.
And actually the rules were delivered to us on a GOLDEN chariot, not a silver one, by a GODESS.

Posted by: JdB Dec 1 2007, 22:23

The http://forum.armedassault.info/index.php?act=SR&f=9 have been updated, some rules have been reviewed, others re-defined (mostly made more understandable):

The picture limit has gone up from 100kb to 150kb, however there is a catch:

QUOTE
12) No images are to be posted in the English section that exceed 150kb's filesize.

You may be post restricted for failure to comply with this rule.


QUOTE
13) Images may not be made up of more than 1 file

This rule is meant to ensure that 12 is usefull in keeping the forum easy to access for all people regardless of their hardware. An image must be made of a single, continious file. When more than one file is used, we will take action against the poster.


Other changes include replacing "ArmA" with "Software" in rule 2-1, adding the hyperlink pointing to this thread to rule 2-8, rule "6)No posting of explicit pictures" has been changed to "6)No posting of explicit graphics" to include videos, flashfiles etc, 3-5 has been changed from indicating that you need to contact a moderator to indicating that you need to contact an administrator to have changes made to your account, 3-7 has been changed to specify that posting in non-English and providing an English translation is not allowed either, since we cannot check the accuracy of the translation.

The http://forum.armedassault.info/index.php?showtopic=1044 have also been updated to include the updated/added rules 2-12 and 2-13.

Posted by: D@V Dec 1 2007, 22:38

Hurrah! Does the "images may not be made of one file" also apply to sigs as well?

Posted by: JdB Dec 1 2007, 22:47

QUOTE(D@V @ Dec 1 2007, 22:38) *
Hurrah! Does the "images may not be made of one file" also apply to sigs as well?


It's not under "4. Signatures and Avatars", do the math wink.gif

Unlike normal images in posts the maximum size of the combined signature images is defined (100pixels), so rule 13 wouldn't make sense for signatures.

Posted by: Helping Hand Dec 1 2007, 23:22

I don't see that as a catch really more of a statement. The reason most people like Parvus etc split their images was to get them to adhere to the rules. Why would we need to use multiple images to create one anymore now unless it as a super hi def .png...

Posted by: JdB Dec 2 2007, 00:34

QUOTE(Helping Hand @ Dec 1 2007, 23:22) *
I don't see that as a catch really more of a statement. The reason most people like Parvus etc split their images was to get them to adhere to the rules. Why would we need to use multiple images to create one anymore now unless it as a super hi def .png...


The rules are there to deal with extreme cases, not with regular users, which is why we increased the limit wink.gif

I'm sure some people would love to post 3 parts of as close as 150kb each as they can get for the pleasure of having detail that the human eye can't distinguish anyway. Like people posting in png because they think you can see the difference in a 1024X768 picture (you could see the difference if it was high res 3000X2000 300DPI artwork created for printing).

If we didn't include it, and someone would post a picture in 4 parts of 150kb each, we wouldn't be able to do anything about it, which is why it's in the rules.

Posted by: Helping Hand Dec 2 2007, 11:38

Fair point made.

Posted by: JdB Jan 5 2008, 00:33

QUOTE
Cruelty has nothing to with quantity lol. All the others could do little things to him then you ban him. In his mind that is more unfair than the actions of the other moderating staff I guess


No, it's always been me he's hated, even though Wittmann and Hornet warned him for the same things I have. It has very little or nothing to do with me giving the final push, if it had been Wittmann, he would have blamed me for tidying up the forum with rules (we had rules prior to me, and the rules were re-written by Wittmann when this forum was started).

The funny thing is no one really knows why they hate me from the past, they heard it from someone who heard it from someone who claims he was active on the forums back then. No one who was active back then is here now except for Cervo, Hornet85 and a handful of other people (brataccas was around for OFP, but I don't recall him being active that early).

Posted by: Helping Hand Jan 5 2008, 00:34

Hmm. Guess he just hates you then mellow.gif

**

PM Sent.

Posted by: Elliot Carver Jan 5 2008, 04:00

To add my two cents

I have to side with JDB with this one. Brats actions of spamming the account system and his continual disregard for the rules in responding to a moderator like that warranted his ban ... on top of everything else as well.

I've always been one to question where the line stands with the rules but in this case its been well and truly crossed....shame tiredsmiley.gif

Posted by: D@V Jan 5 2008, 18:03

QUOTE
The funny thing is no one really knows why they hate me from the past, they heard it from someone who heard it from someone who claims he was active on the forums back then. No one who was active back then is here now except for Cervo, Hornet85 and a handful of other people

I know.
And it's happening again, isn't it?


I'm noticing a lot of PR's being given for people posting in the CC Thread. Largely for what could be considered trivial matters. I don't want to say that John's being a bad moderator, but I really don't think the majority of those people deserved their punishments (maybe one did, but that's up for discussion). pMaster has been given twice the punishment that is the to anticipated for such a minor action. What's up with that!?

I'm also noticing a lapse in areas where rules should be enforces. There might not be a rule against Sarcasm, but there is a rule against Flamebaiting and Flaming, both of which seem to be being tolerated simply because their being done by what some people might consider to be "special" circumstances. I don't see the point of having the CC Thread if people are just going to be punished for posting in it.

Posted by: x-ray Jan 5 2008, 18:28

QUOTE(D@V @ Jan 5 2008, 18:03) *
I know.
And it's happening again, isn't it?


second that. The past is repeating.

and i agree with Dave. Personally i feel constricted by sentences like "Next person to use the wrong means of communication will get a few weeks of vacation away from the forum smile.gif" ... I have to fear that i get a (very long) PR just because i "violate" a "communication rule" in YOUR eyes. Thats not ok. Well, and maybe pMASTER was sarcastic, whats wrong about sarcasm? He did not insult you or any other member. Maybe it was not ok, but 2 WBs and 48 PR are like breaking a butterfly on a wheel. On the other there are members who'd deserve a much stronger punishment for flaming/spamming who get away with maximum 1 WB and 24 PR. That's applying double standards but especially you as moderator have to be even-handed and treat everyone equal and thats what i'm missing here.

Posted by: JdB Jan 5 2008, 18:35

I'm not going to discuss every individual case again, because I have explained this again and again and again previously:

We have rules, you follow them. When you either accidentally or on purpose violate any rule, we give you a warning, PR, WB or a combination. You can comment or discuss a decision made by a moderator, or the rules in general, however when you do this by posting in any thread other than the Moderation Feedback thread, you will get reprimanded. The same goes for ignoring a moderator's instructions. You can disagree with a decision, but if you ignore the instructions, you will again be reprimanded , because it sets a bad example as it just shows that you can get away with total disregard for the rules and the desire for a forum with no rules.

If I have warned before not to discuss a decision or instruction, and people just ignore what I have just said, or respond in a sarcastic way multiple times, I will give them some time off to think about their decision to ignore me.

Posted by: D@V Jan 5 2008, 18:39

QUOTE(JdB @ Jan 5 2008, 17:35) *
I'm not going to discuss every individual case again, because I have explained this again and again and again previously:

We have rules, you follow them. When you either accidentally or on purpose violate any rule, we give you a warning, PR, WB or a combination. You can comment or discuss a decision made by a moderator, or the rules in general, however when you do this by posting in any thread other than the Moderation Feedback thread, you will get reprimanded. The same goes for ignoring a moderator's instructions. You can disagree with a decision, but if you ignore the instructions, you will again be reprimanded , because it sets a bad example as it just shows that you can get away with total disregard for the rules and the desire for a forum with no rules.

If I have warned before not to discuss a decision or instruction, and people just ignore what I have just said, or respond in a sarcastic way multiple times, I will give them some time off to think about their decision to ignore me.


So, basically the problem is people disagreeing with your interpretation of the rules? Is that really how it happens now?

Posted by: x-ray Jan 5 2008, 18:48

Your last sentence shows what i fear you do all the time: you take that stuff personally:
"If I have warned before not to discuss a decision or instruction, and people just ignore what I have just said, or respond in a sarcastic way multiple times, I will give them some time off to think about their decision to ignore me."

YOU as MODERATOR have to be objective! Sarcasm is not prohibited in any rule on these forums or did i miss something?
And it seems like you punish some people you maybe don't like much harder than other ones (i don't name any members.)

by the way, i want to point out that even moderators can do mistakes sometimes. Sometimes they need to have their decisions revised and if i was on your stead, to receive so many criticism would make me think, especially if people point out that I have exaggerated and that I have exaggerated before

Posted by: JdB Jan 5 2008, 18:52

QUOTE(D@V @ Jan 5 2008, 18:39) *
So, basically the problem is people disagreeing with your interpretation of the rules? Is that really how it happens now?


What interpretation of the rules? It's right there in the rules:

QUOTE
3)Follow the instructions of the moderators

When an administrator or moderator asks you to do something or to stop doing something, please follow their instructions, if you're unhappy with their instructions feel free to PM them or another moderator or administrator. Do NOT discuss this in the thread itself, otherwise it will be considered spam and you will be punished forthwith. You have the right to discuss your position with a moderator or an administrator so long as you remain non-abusive and reasonable. Your punishment can be reduced or removed at the discretion of a moderator or administrator.


It is considered spam, and as the "No Spam" rule states:

QUOTE
5)No Spam

We deem spam as making a thread or posting a reply that has no real worth, is irrelevant, useless and offers nothing to a discussion, that is posted outside the Off-Topic sub-forum of the forum's which has its own rules stickied in the sub-forum. Posts that are in place of a moderator and are misleading or not needed, or that are not in line with the topic and contribute nothing of any worth can also be considered spam. Responding to a spam-bot on the forum will be considered spam and will lead to a post restriction. Spam is not limited to text, posting an image as a means of spam or a spam'esque URL will also result in the same response from a moderator. With spam being hard to define, it is another example of something left to moderator's discretion, if in doubt ask yourself "does my reply add to the discussion in a way for the discussion to continue further"? If not then think of something "meatier" to add to the thread. Repeated spamming will result in a Warning Level increase.

Posted by: D@V Jan 5 2008, 18:59

QUOTE
5)No Spam

We deem spam as making a thread or posting a reply that has no real worth, is irrelevant, useless and offers nothing to a discussion, that is posted outside the Off-Topic sub-forum of the forum's which has its own rules stickied in the sub-forum. Posts that are in place of a moderator and are misleading or not needed, or that are not in line with the topic and contribute nothing of any worth can also be considered spam. Responding to a spam-bot on the forum will be considered spam and will lead to a post restriction. Spam is not limited to text, posting an image as a means of spam or a spam'esque URL will also result in the same response from a moderator. With spam being hard to define, it is another example of something left to moderator's discretion, if in doubt ask yourself "does my reply add to the discussion in a way for the discussion to continue further"? If not then think of something "meatier" to add to the thread. Repeated spamming will result in a Warning Level increase.

QUOTE
1) Idiotic or senseless spam and smiley reply only posts will be punished
2) Your posts must have a reason or logic to them
3) All other forum rules apply
4) Threads should not be opened for random things or idle chit chat, use the chatter thread

QUOTE
*Flooding
*Typing in caps/alternate caps
*Flaming
*Arguing over a mods decisions
*Typing random gibberish
*Plainly useless posts (Left to Mods discretion, its going to have to be really stupid or useless to be punished for)
*Posting in a language other than English
*No Rewan's unless under control and on a lead

Yet again, I fail to see sarcasm there.

Posted by: The Lord Jan 5 2008, 20:55

QUOTE(JdB @ Jan 4 2008, 23:33) *
No, it's always been me he's hated, even though Wittmann and Hornet warned him for the same things I have. It has very little or nothing to do with me giving the final push, if it had been Wittmann, he would have blamed me for tidying up the forum with rules (we had rules prior to me, and the rules were re-written by Wittmann when this forum was started).

The funny thing is no one really knows why they hate me from the past, they heard it from someone who heard it from someone who claims he was active on the forums back then. No one who was active back then is here now except for Cervo, Hornet85 and a handful of other people (brataccas was around for OFP, but I don't recall him being active that early).



I was active back then, and I remember why. I was active before ofp.info forum went to the new server. Back with pontifex.

I remember the old sig too biggrin.gif
Same Shit, Different asshole.

Some people have a legitimate reason here.

Posted by: The Lord Jan 5 2008, 21:37

Removed as it contains information from the Private forums, when I find out who leaked it, he will be gone as well as you.

This shows exactly what you and your friends stand for, childishness, backstabing and unprofessional behavior (the one who gave you that text).

Posted by: Helping Hand Jan 5 2008, 22:56

QUOTE(JdB @ Jan 5 2008, 16:31) *
Warning level +1 and a 24hr post restriction for responding to a moderator's instructions in an inappropriate place. pMASTER does not respect the rules, as he clearly does not respect the rules as shown by the way he posts (he even told me so on MSN), so any disregard he shows will be reflected on his warning log. Next person to use the wrong means of communication will get a few weeks of vacation away from the forum smile.gif

If people are here long enough, or have a sufficient postcount, they think they've earned the right to ignore the rules or show the moderating staff and/or site team that they don't give a sh*t about what they say, well sorry to say, that's not how it works.

When a moderator tells you to do something, or to stop doing something because it's in violation with the rules, you follow their instructions. If you don't violate the rules, your warning log will remain empty, it's as simple as that.


From what I've read of the topic you suspended him completely from the forums for a completely unjustifiable reason. He didn't question your actions nor did he comment on the moderation of the thread he merely voiced an opinion to the community to grow up and you acted with you ban stick and suspended him on the spot like a bufoon because someone other than you tells the community to take a break from going at each other. Now if you decide to take action against me for saying this i really couldn't give a f*cking toss as your actions of late have been mostly unjustifiably harsh to members. Good day to you.

Posted by: Blackscorpion Jan 5 2008, 23:02

Agreed once more?

*starts shoving pillows into his jeans*

Lets just empty the forums then...

Posted by: JdB Jan 5 2008, 23:02

QUOTE(Helping Hand @ Jan 5 2008, 22:56) *
From what I've read of the topic you suspended him completely from the forums for a completely unjustifiable reason. He didn't question your actions nor did he comment on the moderation of the thread he merely voiced an opinion to the community to grow up and you acted with you ban stick and suspended him on the spot like a bufoon because someone other than you tells the community to take a break from going at each other. Now if you decide to take action against me for saying this i really couldn't give a f*cking toss as your actions of late have been mostly unjustifiably harsh to members. Good day to you.


Posting on these forums is a privilege, not a right. If you, or anyone else for that matter, do(es) not like the rules, or the fact that they are enforced, I suggest you/they find a different forum to post on smile.gif

I used the Suspend option, as the removing of posting rights feature has caused some trouble lately (PR's being converted to Indefinite when editing them)

Posted by: Helping Hand Jan 5 2008, 23:03

There aren't going to be any of the regular members here if this stupidity continues as they are leaving being fed up with the actions of certain people. I'm going to stay here and see how things play out but if I start getting blamed for things that's it I'm leaving as I've had quite enough of this.

Posted by: JdB Jan 5 2008, 23:06

QUOTE(Helping Hand @ Jan 5 2008, 23:03) *
There aren't going to be any of the regular members here if this stupidity continues as they are leaving being fed up with the actions of certain people.


This forum is for everyone that can oblige by the rules, and the moderating staff's instructions to adhere to them, not just the priviliged "regulars" smile.gif

I've heard that before by the way, and the forum still attracts members smile.gif

Posted by: Helping Hand Jan 5 2008, 23:14

QUOTE(JdB @ Jan 5 2008, 22:06) *
This forum is for everyone that can oblige by the rules, and the moderating staff's instructions to adhere to them, not just the priviliged "regulars" smile.gif

I've heard that before by the way, and the forum still attracts members smile.gif


I don't mean privileges and or special treatment I mean there will be nobody here that is an older member than say beenie1983pl etc. The members that have been here longer help you in your job a lot by directing people to and from things without your intervention now if you want to make your own job harder then by all means carry on with your current plan of action. We don't chose to come here because it's the only forum to discuss things we come here because the site appeals to us as a nice closed community. If your up to try and change things then that's up to you isn't it.

Posted by: brataccas Jan 6 2008, 01:25

JdB. this isint personal attack or anything but why forcefully go ahead with the rules so tightly as tho we need to be kept on a tight leash on this somewhat friendly? community? when we couldve all got on really well and because of these bizzare incredulous rules, you follow them in the strictest manner possible, too strict I say but perhaps if you cut us all some slack we could all get on as a "family" again? sad.gif

dunno if ive worded/explained properly so....

It often feels as though im on a communist forum here which is unneeded imo, how bothered are you that pretty much all the regulars are complaining? unsure.gif

Posted by: Bracken Jan 6 2008, 08:02

My personal opinion is that if rules are not made to be met and only rough guides, they will probably decay even further over time.
An I may disagree with some decisions, but I think at the end of the day there is always reason behind them and people have plenty of time and warning levels to learn from their mistakes.

But like I said, thats my personal opinion, and as shown above, others disagree. smile.gif

Posted by: Rewan Jan 6 2008, 12:46

I will be neutral here... but I must say: forum don't attract people but the site does, if you ban every "old" members from OFP.info who will help the "new" members ? I haven't seen a true new face on the forum, only some "tourists" whose made a post, wait the answer then leave.

I think we don't act as true forums member but more like a closed-like community whose reject others.

Posted by: Helping Hand Jan 6 2008, 13:11

QUOTE(Rewan @ Jan 6 2008, 11:46) *
I will be neutral here... but I must say: forum don't attract people but the site does, if you ban every "old" members from OFP.info who will help the "new" members ? I haven't seen a true new face on the forum, only some "tourists" whose made a post, wait the answer then leave.

I think we don't act as true forums member but more like a closed-like community whose reject others.


Exactly my point.

Posted by: JdB Jan 6 2008, 15:33

QUOTE(Helping Hand @ Jan 6 2008, 13:11) *
Exactly my point.


QUOTE
I think we don't act as true forums member but more like a closed-like community whose reject others.


That last sentence in Rewan's post is open to interpretation, as I see it he meant that the "regulars" with their in-house jokes scare people off at times.

Also we're not seeing as many new people because, quite frankly the game and community aren't as good as those of OFP. You can sense it in every part of the community, more agitation, more whining, more clueless off-topic chatter. If you come on a forum and see threads full of bug-reports, you're just not as likely to stick around, and instead switch to another game. That may not apply to us, but the majority of gamers does switch their "primary" games very easily.

For many of the "regulars" here this forum has become more of a place to talk to people you've known for a while, the Community Chatter thread is by far the most popular, and the "regulars" make up for 9/10 posts, rather than a game-related forum, which is our primary focus. I can see it when I PR someone. If he's relatively new to the forum, there is no response in this thread, or PM. When I PR one of the "regulars", that is radically different, and you get remarks like "There aren't going to be any of the regular members here", indicating you find yourself so important that we should look the other way when one of them violates a rule just to keep you happy. That is setting double standards, and we've talked about that before. The decision to reprimand someone is always based on violations of the rules, it's just the crowd of friends that makes the difference.

QUOTE
We don't chose to come here because it's the only forum to discuss things we come here because the site appeals to us as a nice closed community.


It's not, it's an open forum where everyone is welcome to participate fully, and everyone abides by the same rules.

Posted by: Rewan Jan 6 2008, 16:18

It's because we 'know' each others, if a member is PR'ed when we 'know' him then there will be a backdraft.

If you see a huge man attacking another man, you don't know the other guy you will say "Whoah, I can't stand against him, he will explode my face aswell", so you do nothing or you call police.
If you know the guy you're going to do something for defending hom and call the police.

Well my french-glish kill the meaning of my posts but I think you can understand the global meaning. (I hope)

Posted by: Helping Hand Jan 6 2008, 18:20

I understand where your going with that. If it's someone you know you'll put yourself in the firing line for them.

Posted by: BigglesTrevor Jan 6 2008, 18:41

I would like to complain in the highest possable terms to my 24 hour post restriction and warn block.

To put it frank, i think the fact that i got that punishment is a complete disgrace and a complete joke. I feel i have suffered at the hands of either discrimination and inconsistent moderation or alternativly what can only be described as a moderating howler.

Lets disect my post.

QUOTE
can people please stop this bullshit. the reason this site and forum is popular is because its the sane version of the BI forums. This crap is really damaging this forums credability, itleast the english section anyway.


Now to me this seems a perfectly reasonable attack on the communtiy. This is not flaming, its not specific enough to be a flame. Its clearly not going to antagonise anyone, or cause argument. It was simply a reaction to petty posts, for example and i quote :-

"*sigh* Here we go again. To the ramparts!"

"^ utter pathetic post by LThunter or jdb whatever"

The thread in question is names the 'community chatter thread'. I am annoyed at our community, so naturally the place to complain to the community itself (not the site team or moderating staff) is the community discussion thread. I am very frustrated with the behaviour with some members and i have every right to express this is an adult manner.

For this, it is deemed i should serve a post restriction. The explanation is as follows :-

QUOTE
Warning level +1 and a 24hr post restriction for responding to a moderator's instructions in an inappropriate place. pMASTER does not respect the rules, as he clearly does not respect the rules as shown by the way he posts (he even told me so on MSN), so any disregard he shows will be reflected on his warning log. Next person to use the wrong means of communication will get a few weeks of vacation away from the forum


Now excuse me, but please firstly find an example in my post of responding inapropriatly to a moderator instruction. Find any, no i didnt think so. You have not left one post in that forum saying i cannot express my feelings about the performance of the communtiy.

To quote yourself JdB, (yes this post is aimed specificly at you)

QUOTE
The next person to post things like "JdB should have been on and at least PR'ed me, because thats what he is like... ", "It's Flamed you illiterate oik not Flammed.", "H_H keeps being an arsehole", will bespot banned on the regardless of their current warninglevel.


Now does my post in way say anything like that? short answer No. I am not specific in my complaint, i name no-one is particular. I also do not bring any doubts or criticism into how the forum is being moderated. Therefor as i see it my post breaks no rules and i am not breaking any percieved moderators instruction, only perhaps if the moderator in question has been far from making clear his or her instruction. There is also not a hint of sarcasm to that effect.

The excuse for my post restriction, and yes calling it an excuse is fair in my opinion, also eludes

QUOTE
If people are here long enough, or have a sufficient postcount, they think they've earned the right to ignore the rules or show the moderating staff and/or site team that they don't give a sh*t about what they say, well sorry to say, that's not how it works.


First please inform what rule i have ignored. And i also find it hard to see how my postcount or time spent on these forums comes into this arguamnt. This is much more of a personal attack against me, and possable flame creator than the post i made could have ever have been. It assumes you feel my only participation on these forums is to become bigger than the moderating staff through my post count. Firstly what a pile of shite. Secondly if i was a moderator you would have a 24hr post restricion and 1 warning block for flame bating.

Now ill show you how i feel discriminated against due to moderation inconsistencies. My posts warrented actions, where as

QUOTE
Welcome back dude may I suggest that you don't post for fear of your account privileges?


QUOTE
This is getting to be one of the most senseless debates I've ever seen...


QUOTE
Oi... WBs/PRs for everyone


QUOTE
This is fun to read. At least it's not like ofp.info czech OT section where were only bulls*its


Were deemed to deserve no punishment. Sorry to quote yourself,
QUOTE
responding to a moderator's instructions in an inappropriate place and in a constant sarcastic manner
. I think there are a few clear cases of this above, and you have already shown you enforce this rule when you feel like it post resticting peemaster a few posts above my post in question.

I mean hell, browse a few posts down and i find this
QUOTE
Post deleted, no discussion of the decisions of the moderating staff outside of the designated thread and/or PM please


Now i dont know who made this post, or what it was about, but it was deemed bad enough to be removed. Despite this whoever created this was not seen as making as much a mr menor to deserve any sort of punishment despite the fact his post was seen bad enough to remove!

To summarise, i have done absolutly NOTHING wrong and you know it. I want a full apology and the removal of my warn block. I'm willing to forget this hole incident if i get this. However i must warn you i am very insulted by the hole affair, which is why i am giving you the oppertunity to correct your error. If it be the case that you decide to stand by your rash action then i promise you i will take this higher until i get some sort of an apology, that will include Wittman, Deadeye, Copete, Nano19 and Cervo himself.

Posted by: Helping Hand Jan 6 2008, 18:49

Hmm Most of those quotes that are mine were meant as statements not personalized attacks on particular members. As for the post that was deleted it was mine by JdB for what he deemed a good reason although I personally think it was bullshit that he deleted it mellow.gif

Most of the above I am in agreement with. Your taking of the rules JdB is a personal biased one and not that of an independent adjudicator..

Posted by: da rat Jan 6 2008, 18:55

I'm totally with Trevor on this, this punishment is unfounded and quite frankly ridiculous.

There's nothing I can say that hasn't been said in his post, he hit the nail on the head there with:

QUOTE
discrimination and inconsistent moderation


There have been plenty of posts more 'serious' (if you can even call them that) than Trevor's, yet JdB decided to let them go unpunished and slap Trevor for making a completely innocent post. I would say there is either some history between the two causing JdB to punish Trevor and use the faultless post as an excuse, or simply trying to make an example of Trevor quickly in front of other members.

Either way, simply absurd. sleep.gif

I don't usually stand up here and make myself heard, but this has gone too far. glare.gif

Posted by: JdB Jan 6 2008, 19:16

I had asked that the moderating be discussed in the Moderation Feedback thread or PM, when I see someone obviously continuing to discuss the moderating in the exact same topic, that makes it very easy for me to hand out a PR and WB. It has happened before, it will undoubtedly happen again some day. Let's face it, the only reason there is such a commotion over it is because Biggles is one of the "regulars", and "regulars" feel that they and their friends are special. The only person to have posted a neutral view on the moderating besides Rewan was Bracken, who can easily do that as he is not a "regular", the rest is friends with Biggles, and will therefore defend him.

QUOTE
can people please stop this bullshit. the reason this site and forum is popular is because its the sane version of the BI forums. This crap is really damaging this forums credability, itleast the english section anyway.


Also there is no "history" between myself and BigglesTrevor either positively or negatively, that is the reason why I don't have many of you in my MSN, to be able to be impartial. Some of the comments were more sarcasticly meant than yours, which was pure criticism, which should have gone in the Moderation Feedback thread or PM.

Posted by: BigglesTrevor Jan 6 2008, 19:18

QUOTE(JdB @ Jan 6 2008, 18:16) *
I had asked that the moderating be discussed in the Moderation Feedback thread or PM, when I see someone obviously continuing to discuss the moderating in the exact same topic, that makes it very easy for me to hand out a PR and WB. It has happened before, it will undoubtedly happen again some day. Let's face it, the only reason there is such a commotion over it is because Biggles is one of the "regulars", and "regulars" feel that they and their friends are special. The only person to have posted a neutral view on this besides Rewan was Bracken, who can easily do that as he is not a "regular".


Im sorry this has gone to far. You clearly dont see that my post makes no discussion on the forums moderation. I am really clueless as to how you think it does. Sorry for the french but this is a complete f*cking joke, its really making me question my continued interest in this community.

Posted by: da rat Jan 6 2008, 19:19

QUOTE(JdB @ Jan 6 2008, 18:16) *
I see someone obviously continuing to discuss the moderating in the exact same topic, that makes it very easy for me to hand out a PR and WB. It has happened before...

He was not referring to the moderating. Read his previous post and you'll see that he was addressing the community members themselves, not your moderating. blink.gif

QUOTE
can people *1 please stop this bullshit. the reason this site and forum is popular is because its the sane version of the BI forums. This crap *2 is really damaging this forums credability, itleast the english section anyway.


*1 - This is where he addresses the community members, not Jdb or any of his moderating decisions
*2 - Referring to the arguments in the thread itself. Reworded, it would sound something like: "This bickering" or "This flaming". i.e. Who would want to stay on a forum where all the members argue amongst themselves constantly.

EDIT: What he said ^

QUOTE
Let's face it, the only reason there is such a commotion over it is because Biggles is one of the "regulars", and "regulars" feel that they and their friends are special.


Bullshit, I barely know the bloke (no offence Trevor). I do however know that the decision to PR and hand out a WB was wrong and unfounded. glare.gif

Posted by: JdB Jan 6 2008, 19:23

QUOTE(da rat @ Jan 6 2008, 19:19) *
He was not referring to the moderating. Read his previous post and you'll see that he was addressing the community members themselves, not your moderating. blink.gif

EDIT: What he said ^

Hmm, now that I come to think of it, it might also be explained in a very positive way. Hang on while I review the full context.

The way I initially interpreted the post was:

QUOTE
can people please stop this bullshit. (meaning "admins please remove him") the reason this site and forum is popular is because its the sane version of the BI forums. (meaning "everything allowed, little moderating") This crap is really damaging this forums credibility (meaning "rules being valued too much"), itleast the english section anyway.


Will evaluate, and if needed correct any mistakes made. Even moderators make mistakes. I'm assuming I saw that negative message due to the other demeaning and sarcastic messages. I thought BigglesTrevor's was even more negative, but it does look rather neutral in retrospect.

Posted by: Helping Hand Jan 6 2008, 19:31

YOU took the post personally as we have said before, and took it into your own context which is why you acted as you did. Hindsight is a great tool isn't it...

Posted by: BigglesTrevor Jan 6 2008, 19:32

QUOTE
can people please stop this bullshit. (meaning "admins please remove him") the reason this site and forum is popular is because its the sane version of the BI forums. (meaning "everything allowed, little moderating") This crap is really damaging this forums credibility (meaning "rules being valued too much"), itleast the english section anyway


I have no idea of how anyone could come to that interpretation. I understand there is a language barrier among the forums, but im not writing in code. Its almost as if in that piece you have attempted to turn everything i say into somthing against the moderation of the forum.

Lets get somthing straight, Me and JdB have no personal vendetta. I personally had nothing to say either way when he was named the new moderator, i was more than willing to listen to his instructions. I was also happy to help the community in any possable way, agreeing (and honoured) to assist with the judging of the photogrpahy contest., invited personally by JdB. I would describe our relationship before this incident as peachy. I just cannot highlight enough how disgruntled i am with this decision he has come too.

Posted by: D@V Jan 6 2008, 19:34

Look. We can sit here and discuss what people said and analyze every tiny word and look at everyone way people have negatively said anything or said something in a way that can be interpreted as something else. But it's going to get us nowhere. So I'm just going to say what I think.

John, this is directed at you.

You shouldn't have given pMaster a post restriction or any warn blocks. He didn't do anything and to be honest, the only reason you did it was because you didn't like the attitude he took towards you and the forum rules.

The_Lord shouldn't have been effectively banned because he posted something that might have damaged your reputation. You go on and on about how people should be posting moderator feedback in the feedback thread and he does it and you kick him out. And don't try and tell us you kicked him out because he was breaking the rules. You kicked him out because he's been one of your more vocal oppositions.

I don't like the way you threaten to ban people for minor offenses. I don't like your little "kill count" and I know a lot of other people don't like your general attitude towards moderation and your own little methods of doing them.



Personally, I hope that this can end here and you'll take note of what I've said, because clearly no one else is going to say it. This is not a personal attack and I hope you don't see it as being so.

Posted by: JdB Jan 6 2008, 20:22

BigglesTrevor's WB has been removed, as I have concluded that it was given after my misinterpretation of his post, due to 4 out of 6 (not counting my moderating post) posts on that page alone prior to his post being sarcastic, negative and/or commenting on the moderating, I can't say I'm surprised I misread his post, however unfortunate.

QUOTE
Do you really think I would have bothered myself with reading through the two pages of crap which were produced here lately?
How good that I did not post something related to the black list.

No!!! JdB please don't close this thread now!

Get it going, Yehaa.

*sigh* Here we go again. To the ramparts!


I regret the decision of making BigglesTrevor the unfortunate victim of the negative posting of others. I don't like PR'ing someone, but when someone shows disregard for the rules, I will give that PR, this means that we feel that pMASTER was rightly PR'ed.

The Lord was banned for posting information from the "Private" forums (it bears that name for a reason), which undermines the working of the Moderating Staff, Site Team and the site as a whole, just as a security leak does (we ban hackers, cheaters and people who download software on the spot as well). Others more directly connected to us were removed from their positions before for leaking information from the Private forums.

Posted by: BigglesTrevor Jan 6 2008, 21:04

i feel for myselft itleast justice has be done, and i applaud the reversal of your decision.

Posted by: brataccas Jan 6 2008, 23:07

if is the language barrier is causing these problems then why is someone who doesnt speak english as their native tongue moderating the English section? thats what I wanna know... unsure.gif

Posted by: JdB Jan 6 2008, 23:48

QUOTE(brataccas @ Jan 6 2008, 23:07) *
if is the language barrier is causing these problems then why is someone who doesnt speak english as their native tongue moderating the English section? thats what I wanna know... unsure.gif


So you're saying that someone who is a native English speaker never misinterprets anything? Everyone makes mistakes, but when a moderator that tries to control the amount of freedom that some members are trying to achieve does it, it's evil, and must have been willingly plotted. Don't accuse me alone of having a bad attitude. Like D@V said in regards to the "Who gets banned for Christmas" contest, no one went berserk when I wasn't yet a moderator, but this year when I was, some took it as an opportunity to vent their frustration. Because of all of a sudden my knowledge of the English language is not good enough? Coincidental? For your information, I had better grades in English than I had in Dutch.

I'm not a native English speaker, but my usage of English is better than that of a lot of people that regularly visit this forum and complain about the moderating.

Posted by: brataccas Jan 7 2008, 00:22

that clears that up then smile.gif

Posted by: Daith Jan 8 2008, 20:54

I don't think JdB handles post reports very well.

Posted by: Linker Split Jan 9 2008, 01:23

well, I think that JdB moderates in a good way this forum.
I mean: he can make some mistakes, that's obvious, and sometimes appears a bit too much evil as we say tongue.gif but at least, he makes the community respect forum rules.
See, if we (community in which I'm too) respect rules, nobody will get any PR or WB and no moderators will be considered a devil! Is it too hard? I remembered when I was post restricted by the allmighty KH becuase I posted a spam topic (I violated rules) cause I didn't read the rules very well. I took it with a smile on my face, it's only a stupid Warning block and a 24 hour post restriction, that's all! JdB made a mistake for what I've read and if he doesn't do anything to repair it, then he can be considered for what he's done! THIS IS A GAME ABOUT WAR, AND I DON'T WANT A WAR ABOUT A GAME!

Posted by: D@V Jan 9 2008, 11:59

To be honest, JdB does a very good job moderating the rest of the forum. Maybe if we just had a different moderator for the offtopic sections?

Posted by: Rewan Jan 9 2008, 13:06

No D@ve, not you: we KNOW you're trying to become one of us but you wont tongue.gif

Posted by: pMASTER Jan 9 2008, 13:12

You are a moderator again? How on earth...

Posted by: Helping Hand Jan 9 2008, 14:00

What did I miss?

Posted by: pMASTER Jan 9 2008, 14:54

I thought his moderating rights were revoked due to a certain uncomely incident in the past.

My humble self is a moderator, too, by the way...Now isn't that crazy. JdB has played internal affairs lately. tongue.gif

Posted by: Helping Hand Jan 9 2008, 15:05

Aren't you guys only supposed to use your 'powers' for dire emergencies though?

Posted by: pMASTER Jan 9 2008, 15:09

QUOTE(Helping Hand @ Jan 9 2008, 15:05) *
Aren't you guys only supposed to use your 'powers' for dire emergencies though?


QUOTE
http://forum.armedassault.info/index.php?showforum=15
Forum Led by: http://forum.armedassault.info/index.php?act=Members&max_results=30&filter=7&sort_order=asc&sort_key=members_display_name&st=0&b=1, http://forum.armedassault.info/index.php?act=Members&max_results=30&filter=6&sort_order=asc&sort_key=members_display_name&st=0&b=1, http://forum.armedassault.info/index.php?act=Members&max_results=30&filter=4&sort_order=asc&sort_key=members_display_name&st=0&b=1, http://forum.armedassault.info/index.php?showuser=14, http://forum.armedassault.info/index.php?showuser=19


wink.gif

Posted by: Helping Hand Jan 9 2008, 15:32

I'm going to shove that Icon somewhere painful mellow.gif At least Rewan isn't listed in the French section...

Posted by: Deadeye Jan 9 2008, 16:51

QUOTE(Daith @ Jan 8 2008, 20:54) *
I don't think JdB handles post reports very well.

I cant't agree, JdB handles reports fair and quick and does a very good job moderating the forum smile.gif

@Rest

The site teams moderating rights have been revoked, but as you can see OldBear, Flyer and Pmaster are taking care of the french/german section.

Posted by: pMASTER Jan 9 2008, 17:03

QUOTE(Deadeye @ Jan 9 2008, 16:51) *
I cant't agree, JdB handles reports fair and quick and does a very good job moderating the forum smile.gif

Latest criticism by some members just rolls off from you? It's silly to see how all the staff unites against a united front of alleged repeat offenders...The only conclusion which can be drawn from that fact is that the point of view of boths sides is pretty biased. Of course I don't exclude myself from that assessment.

QUOTE(Deadeye @ Jan 9 2008, 16:51) *
The site teams moderating rights have been revoked, but as you can see OldBear, Flyer and Pmaster are taking care of the french/german section.

At what did Rewan hint then?

Posted by: Deadeye Jan 9 2008, 17:35

QUOTE(pMASTER @ Jan 9 2008, 17:03) *
Latest criticism by some members just rolls off from you? It's silly to see how all the staff unites against a united front of alleged repeat offenders...The only conclusion which can be drawn from that fact is that the point of view of boths sides is pretty biased. Of course I don't exclude myself from that assessment.


At what did Rewan hint then?

I was talking about JdB's moderation in general !
If you are trying to hint to to the community chatter chunking, I can't say much yet ...haven't read through all these pages but judging from the posts in this topic and the "other" section it was legitimately to act against the people involved..still you can argue whether some punishments were a bit harsh or not, but as the the tension was eased let's don't bringt the debate back again, if someone wants to talk to me (about this issue or about any other problems) either drop a PM or contact me on ICQ/MSN smile.gif

Sidenote : Other issues do not include dieseases wink.gif

and I think rewan hinted that d@ve wants to become a part of the site...either as php code or as a newsposter/moderator. US meaning the whole team not only moderators

Posted by: Rewan Jan 9 2008, 19:57

DeadEye got it wink.gif

Posted by: D@V Jan 10 2008, 02:33

QUOTE(Deadeye @ Jan 9 2008, 15:51) *
I cant't agree, JdB handles reports fair and quick and does a very good job moderating the forum smile.gif


Aside from setting a member with 0 warn level to an instant 20 year ban for simply bringing light to the events which led to his previous dismissal from the team?

I'm sorry, the information appears to have been deleted. Apparently quoting JdB's Lt_HuNtEr's "retirement" message is against the rules. You still haven't commented on this yet. I know what was in that post. I saw it. There was nothing in that post that was against the rules. I'd like to ask Hunter, what's the real reason you decided to give The_Lord a PR Longer than the development time of DN:F? Was it because he posted a quote from the private section of a dead forum?

You can tell me as much as you like that that's you've banned him because he's breaking copyright or doing something like that, Hunter, but to be honest, that's bullshit and everyone knows it. You banned him because you don't like him. If, say, Mark had posted that he'd have gotten of scot free. You'd probably just have edited his post to remove it and give him a slight warning. You might not even have edited his post.

In the style of your retirement post, I'll put it in a method you might understand smile.gif

Over the past few days I have lost confidence in this forums moderation team (Lt_HuNtEr). He does not want to moderate these forums with respect for the rules as they are, but just twists them to remove people who disagree with him.

Imagine this: Lt_HuNtEr at town.
If Lt_HuNtEr was to go out into the streets and start quoting his government when they might have said stupid stuff just once, people would generally just take that to be his opinion and carry on doing whatever they were doing. They might think for a moment that he might have a point, they might even, in very rare circumstances listern to every word and rise up against their capitalist oppressors. The police would not concern themselves with this.

The Police would not give Lt_HuNtEr a 9mm lobotomy the second he opens his lips.



Lt_HuNtEr has made the moderation of this forum empty. No one from the English section is really willing to stand up to this, because as The_Lord has shown, simply speaking out against him in what could be considered an aggressive manner will simply have you banned and your posts edited so that no one can question if or not you actually did something wrong.

This blatant display of dictatorism; no, before you say it, that is exactly the right word for this, in the moderation team (apologies to Copete for getting him embroiled in this, it really doesn't apply to you smile.gif ) is the sort of thing that gets rid of some of the better members we've had.


Remember Hamster? One of the better members of the OFP.info and subsequently ArmedAssault.info forums, has left twice because he feels that Lt_HuNtEr is taking his task extremely. Is it right that people such as Hamster, people who made OFP.info what it was are being driven out by Lt_HuNtEr? I have no intention of sitting by while the people who made this community what it is are being thrown out for questioning the right of a power-hungry despot (and, yet again, that is exactly the right word) ruling these forums for his own malign purposes.

Whatever I get for this post I want you to know that I completely accept it. No form of punishment can change my feelings on this matter.
And in the event of this post mysteriously disappearing I have a few friends who will help this message get around, with The_Lord's deleted post thrown in! biggrin.gif

Posted by: pMASTER Jan 10 2008, 10:00

I'm not going to call the way JdB is moderating the forum dictatorship, that is just pure exaggeration. And I don't mind JdB as a person, how could I if I don't even know him personally.
He takes things too seriously though, even those who advocated his way of moderation here have admitted that, and many of his replies, above all in this thread have proven that as well.

QUOTE
I will give them some time off to think about their decision to ignore me.

QUOTE
why they hate me from the past


I pity you if you really feel like being hated here which is for sure not the case. This forum is certainly among the most nicest places on the internet, free from racism and personal insults.

A kind of a bad excuse is the statement that members with a longer history in these forums would be the only group to whinge about punishments. Even if this was the truth, what difference would it make?

What I politely want to ask for is at least one thing: It poisons the good atmosphere in these forums to read in lets say every fifth moderators reply things like "I got a new ban stick for christmas" or "six scumbags have bitten the dust", "the next person to do the same will be banned on the spot regardless of their current warninglevel".
In real life I don't see the police walk around and yelling at people things like "Come on do it I wanna bust you" or "Will you be the sixth person I'm going to arrest today?" either.
Please refrain from this behaviour hereafter.

Posted by: JdB Jan 10 2008, 17:36

QUOTE(D@V @ Jan 10 2008, 02:33) *
Aside from setting a member with 0 warn level to an instant 20 year ban for simply bringing light to the events which led to his previous dismissal from the team?

I'm sorry, the information appears to have been deleted. Apparently quoting JdB's Lt_HuNTeR's "retirement" message is against the rules. You still haven't commented on this yet. I know what was in that post. I saw it. There was nothing in that post that was against the rules. I'd like to ask Hunter, what's the real reason you decided to give The_Lord a PR Longer than the development time of DN:F? Was it because he posted a quote from the private section of a dead forum?

You can tell me as much as you like that that's you've banned him because he's breaking copyright or doing something like that, Hunter, but to be honest, that's bullshit and everyone knows it. You banned him because you don't like him. If, say, Mark had posted that he'd have gotten of scot free. You'd probably just have edited his post to remove it and give him a slight warning. You might not even have edited his post.


The member that gave him the content of the post caused The Lord's ban, as he provided him with information from the Private (that's not a randomly chosen name) forums. This is because of Cervo's very simple rule: "What goes on in the team, stays in the team". Major public differences of opinion between team members reflect badly on the image of the team, and therefore site, and are therefore kept Private. That is also the reason I do not enter into any kind of discussion regarding the content of the post. The Lord's friend in the site team chose to ignore team regulations, and The Lord got the punishment for it. This is part of the logic that if a section is not visible, and is in fact called "Private", the information is not open to the public.

Like was said before, Rewan was removed from the Site team for posting Private information in public (which was pretty much harmless, but still a violation). We don't hate Rewan either, but no matter if we consider you to be our friend, or not, we will take action against people that violate Cervo's instructions since they are there to maintain consistency and cohesion. Site team members have rules that apply to them that are not posted in public for obvious reasons.

Posted by: D@V Jan 10 2008, 18:04

Which is all good and fair, I'm not trying to say that The_Lord or his source are exactly completely innocent. I'm merely saying that you've given him an excessive warning for something relatively minor. It's like giving someone a public execution for breaking the speed limit. After all, Rewan wasn't given 15 years or so of post restriction for it, was he?

I don't see how you justify effectively banning a member for a first offence (I really don't see this site lasting more than 15 years).

I can see where your coming from. But I don't think it's really fair blaming The_Lord for Slimiman's actions. What I think would suit everyone would be if his sentence was lightened a bit (maybe 2wb and a PR until the end of the month). Who knows, it might even change his opinion of you. wink.gif


(I apologies for my previous post, as you've not doubt noticed it was made in the early hours)

Posted by: JdB Jan 10 2008, 18:21

QUOTE(D@V @ Jan 10 2008, 18:04) *
Which is all good and fair, I'm not trying to say that The_Lord or his source are exactly completely innocent. I'm merely saying that you've given him an excessive warning for something relatively minor. It's like giving someone a public execution for breaking the speed limit.

I don't see how you justify effectively banning a member for a first offence (I really don't see this site lasting more than 15 years).

I can see where your coming from. But I don't think it's really fair blaming The_Lord for Slimiman's actions. What I think would suit everyone would be if his sentence was lightened a bit (maybe 2wb and a PR until the end of the month). Who knows, it might even change his opinion of you. wink.gif


For bans I type "Suspend account for [5000] days", which in this case runs until 2021 I believe, as I said to other moderating staff, it is most likely a temporary ban, for a few weeks or months (probably the latter, seeing as it's an attempt at undermining the functioning of the site and forum), to get the message across to all people, including Site team, unless Cervo decides otherwise. This is on the same level as people hacking the site or posting MP cheats or exploits, and we ban such individuals permanently. If we would make an exception for The Lord however, it would mean inconsistent moderating, and I've read some complaints about that earlier.

Posted by: pMASTER Jan 10 2008, 18:27

QUOTE(JdB @ Jan 10 2008, 17:36) *
The member that gave him the content of the post caused The Lord's ban, as he provided him with information from the Private (that's not a randomly chosen name) forums. This is because of Cervo's very simple rule: "What goes on in the team, stays in the team". Major public differences of opinion between team members reflect badly on the image of the team, and therefore site, and are therefore kept Private. That is also the reason I do not enter into any kind of discussion regarding the content of the post. The Lord's friend in the site team chose to ignore team regulations, and The Lord got the punishment for it. This is part of the logic that if a section is not visible, and is in fact called "Private", the information is not open to the public.

Like was said before, Rewan was removed from the Site team for posting Private information in public (which was pretty much harmless, but still a violation). We don't hate Rewan either, but no matter if we consider you to be our friend, or not, we will take action against people that violate Cervo's instructions since they are there to maintain consistency and cohesion. Site team members have rules that apply to them that are not posted in public for obvious reasons.

QUOTE
Which is all good and fair, I'm not trying to say that The_Lord or his source are exactly completely innocent. I'm merely saying that you've given him an excessive warning for something relatively minor. It's like giving someone a public execution for breaking the speed limit. After all, Rewan wasn't given 15 years or so of post restriction for it, was he?

I don't see how you justify effectively banning a member for a first offence (I really don't see this site lasting more than 15 years).

I can see where your coming from. But I don't think it's really fair blaming The_Lord for Slimiman's actions. What I think would suit everyone would be if his sentence was lightened a bit (maybe 2wb and a PR until the end of the month). Who knows, it might even change his opinion of you. wink.gif


(I apologies for my previous post, as you've not doubt noticed it was made in the early hours)


Now we have something to clarify here. The Lord was a then member of the team, so he witnessed what was going on at that specific time. Let's assume he had not directly quoted from the internal area, but wrote about the incident from memory, had he violated a rule then?
If you ask me, Rewan has violated the rules by far more then. He made information available to public about a huge change in the history of the .info- sites, whilst The Lord - what I don't particularly appreciate, too - "only" wrote something about the background of a personal conflict which I regard as minor compared to Rewan spreading news about a new forum of us.

By the way, I still wait for someone certain to take stand to my second to last reply.

Posted by: JdB Jan 10 2008, 18:48

QUOTE(pMASTER @ Jan 10 2008, 18:27) *
Now we have something to clarify here. The Lord was a then member of the team, so he witnessed what was going on at that specific time. Let's assume he had not directly quoted from the internal area, but wrote about the incident from memory, had he violated a rule then?
If you ask me, Rewan has violated the rules by far more then. He made information available to public about a huge change in the history of the .info- sites, whilst The Lord - what I don't particularly appreciate, too - "only" wrote something about the background of a personal conflict which I regard as minor compared to Rewan spreading news about a new forum of us.


He can't have know anything about that conflict other than that some kind of difference of opinion took place, unless someone from the Site team told him about it, which is a breach of team protocol. Without any real knowledge it would be pretty much impossible for him to talk about it. I'm not going to discuss the Rewan case in more detail here, since I've only said what was public knowledge, that he got removed from the Site team group for leaking private information.

Also I don't think it's appropriate for you to discuss team policy, or the way action is taken to ensure it's privacy here pMASTER, seeing as you're Site team yourself. Some may want to have everyone involved in team-business, but Cervo does not as you know. What is discussed in the Private forums, is a matter of "need to know" for none other than Admins, Moderators and Site team, as is the decision making process on how the site and forums are run.

Posted by: pMASTER Jan 10 2008, 20:32

QUOTE(JdB @ Jan 10 2008, 18:48) *
He can't have know anything about that conflict other than that some kind of difference of opinion took place, unless someone from the Site team told him about it, which is a breach of team protocol. Without any real knowledge it would be pretty much impossible for him to talk about it. I'm not going to discuss the Rewan case in more detail here, since I've only said what was public knowledge, that he got removed from the Site team group for leaking private information.

Also I don't think it's appropriate for you to discuss team policy, or the way action is taken to ensure it's privacy here pMASTER, seeing as you're Site team yourself. Some may want to have everyone involved in team-business, but Cervo does not as you know. What is discussed in the Private forums, is a matter of "need to know" for none other than Admins, Moderators and Site team, as is the decision making process on how the site and forums are run.

You've misinterstood me. I've asked whether your decision about The Lord would have been the same if the scenario I described had taken place.

Posted by: JdB Jan 10 2008, 21:10

QUOTE(pMASTER @ Jan 10 2008, 20:32) *
You've misinterstood me. I've asked whether your decision about The Lord would have been the same if the scenario I described had taken place.


And as I said, if he had not gotten the information from the Private forums, he wouldn't have known enough about it to mention it, so there would have been no action taken as we can't take any action against things that aren't posted. That quote showed just one side of the story , from a biased source, in an attempt to make me look bad, aimed at nothing else than tackling the moderating process on these forums for the good of spam (others might call it their vision of how these forums should be).

Posted by: Helping Hand Jan 10 2008, 21:12

No not for the good of SPAM. To make you more human in your moderating process, as it stands you don't take into account the way people word their posts very well as your understanding of them differs e.g the Biggles incident. You do your job well but are sometimes to analytical and indeed swift IMHO.

Posted by: Rewan Jan 10 2008, 22:30

I am asking myself why is everyone trying to compare me to The_Lord

I would honnestly say that I did big mistakes because I've said that there will be a new forum. But I would say too that talking about that... is violating the rule 2.7) Do not start threads relating to discussions on other boards

Because I've posted in OFP.info and I've did the mistakes there. And I got only 180% warn

So please don't talk about my case anymore: thanks wink.gif

Posted by: D@V Jan 11 2008, 18:42

QUOTE(JdB @ Jan 10 2008, 17:21) *
For bans I type "Suspend account for [5000] days"


So, basically, this is your way around none of the admins supporting your decision to ban someone?

Posted by: pMASTER Jan 11 2008, 18:47

Cervo and Deadeye expressed their support for his decision.

Posted by: D@V Jan 11 2008, 20:28

Then why haven't they gone ahead and formalised the banning then? wink.gif

Posted by: JdB Jan 11 2008, 20:38

QUOTE(D@V @ Jan 11 2008, 20:28) *
Then why haven't they gone ahead and formalised the banning then? wink.gif


As you (IIRC it was you) said, it amounts to 15 years, and this site probably won't be around anymore in 2021, so it is "forever".

Also the "Suspend" function does not contain a "Disable indefinitely" button like the "Post restrict" function has, unfortunatly.

Posted by: D@V Jan 25 2008, 23:05

Concerning the "Temporary Moderation Actions";
Isn't it about time to let that go? I mean, I haven't seen anyone violating the 150kb rule recently.

Posted by: pMASTER Jan 26 2008, 17:24

You have truly no sense for Cold War - style deterrence tactics!

Posted by: JdB Jan 26 2008, 17:51

QUOTE(pMASTER @ Jan 26 2008, 17:24) *
You have truly no sense for Cold War - style deterrence tactics!


Indeed. It's called a trade off. You (as in the members) asked for a change in the file-size restriction for images, we softened that rule up a bit, and in exchange, any violations that we do see will be dealt with in a more direct manner for an undetermined period of time.

Posted by: D@V Jan 26 2008, 19:59

QUOTE(pMASTER @ Jan 26 2008, 16:24) *
You have truly no sense for Cold War - style deterrence tactics!


I prefer the US approach; Demand Everything, when you get everything, demand more tongue.gif

Posted by: BigglesTrevor Feb 4 2008, 13:33

I have to say that i feel comments like

QUOTE
Another BF2 guy...


from Benoist are rather unnecisary. That comment added nothing to the thread and is a complete waste of space and reading time. Not everyone has been playing OFP 'since launch'. Its amazing how many people claim they have been with OFP 'since launch', im sure theres double than actual computer game sales in the first week of the games release.

Posted by: JdB Feb 4 2008, 15:09

QUOTE(BigglesTrevor @ Feb 4 2008, 13:33) *
I have to say that i feel comments like
from Benoist are rather unnecisary. That comment added nothing to the thread and is a complete waste of space and reading time. Not everyone has been playing OFP 'since launch'. Its amazing how many people claim they have been with OFP 'since launch', im sure theres double than actual computer game sales in the first week of the games release.


There is a nice button at the lower left of every post, it says "! Report" wink.gif

Posted by: BigglesTrevor Feb 4 2008, 20:14

you know ive never actually noticed that. anywhom better here than the actual thread.

Posted by: Rellikki Feb 6 2008, 11:21

QUOTE(JdB @ Feb 5 2008, 20:31) *
Valhalian, this thread has seen clear enough warnings not to post in any language other than English. The next person to do so will have a lengthy vacation away from the forums. Our patience is not endless.


Why wouldn't that be allowed when Valhalian first posted an english version of the message too? I'd understand if the message was 100% different language than english, but come on, he posted it in english too... unsure.gif

Posted by: D@V Feb 6 2008, 11:36

Yeah, I think Rellikki's right. I mean, a lot of members here have to post in the English section even though their first language isn't English. I think it's fair that they should be allowed to post their original thoughts if they have to translate it to English, especially if they're lacking in English skills.

Posted by: Helping Hand Feb 6 2008, 12:50

+1 Would you rather have an English answer that makes hardly any sense or an English answer with what they tried to say in their mother tongue. I think It's important to show some understanding to people who's first language is not English...

Posted by: da rat Feb 6 2008, 14:07

The 'official' stance on this is that there is no way of checking/ moderating what the translated version says, so in theory they could be completely different and nobody unable to speak the language in question could tell.

However I do think that a situation like that would never really happen (i.e. 2 people talking about off-topic stuff or whatever in the translated versions). I think it would make the forum more accessible for non-english people. What if you're Finnish for example, and your English is practically non-existant: you can A. Either not post at all or B. Post badly, possibly misunderstanding what people say and even flaming - see the http://forum.armedassault.info/index.php?showtopic=477&st=180&#entry33517. He didn't really understand that criticisms were not hostile and began to post in a flamey manner as a result.

Posted by: JdB Feb 6 2008, 15:59

QUOTE(da rat @ Feb 6 2008, 14:07) *
The 'official' stance on this is that there is no way of checking/ moderating what the translated version says, so in theory they could be completely different and nobody unable to speak the language in question could tell.

He didn't really understand that criticisms were not hostile and began to post in a flamey manner as a result.


A very simple excuse, we might as well throw out any rule related to flaming and flamebaiting, since everyone can hide behind the convenient veil of misunderstanding/lack of education, when they feel like flaming someone. When you post your mod progress in a forum, you get the person that speaks the language used on that forum well enough to do it, when you don't, and you get agitated because you don't understand, is not our problem. You are responsible for the decision to reply to a topic, you are responsible for the contents of your posts, and you are responsible for writing your posts in a way that we can understand them, not us. If petr.t.lbc, or anyone else for that matter doesn't speak English well enough, they should get someone that does to make post their progress reports.

The text needs to be clear for us to understand, we shouldn't require the help of translators to understand what is being said, for the same reason that moderators only moderate the section of which they speak the language well enough. We cannot know for certain if a translation is accurate, therefore posting in a foreign language and providing a translation is not allowed, and this section is called the English section, in which English is spoken. We judge what is written, not what "might potentially have been meant if". If something is not clear enough, or you feel that you do not speak the language well enough, you shouldn't post in that language section. I don't post in the French or German sections because I don't speak those languages well enough. Makes perfect sense.

The Czechs have a Czech language section to speak Czech in, just like the people that speak French and German, in this section only English will be allowed. If you want to talk in your own language, gather enough visitors from that country/language group to the site and to the forums, and start your own language section, where you can talk in your own language, and your language only.

Posted by: D@V Feb 6 2008, 16:57

QUOTE(JdB @ Feb 6 2008, 14:59) *
The Czechs have a Czech language section to speak Czech in, just like the people that speak French and German, in this section only English will be allowed. If you want to talk in your own language, gather enough visitors from that country/language group to the site and to the forums, and start your own language section, where you can talk in your own language, and your language only.


Which makes perfect sense until someone who can only speak Dutch comes to the forum...

Posted by: JdB Feb 6 2008, 19:17

QUOTE(D@V @ Feb 6 2008, 16:57) *
Which makes perfect sense until someone who can only speak Dutch comes to the forum...


QUOTE
If you want to talk in your own language, gather enough visitors from that country/language group to the site and to the forums, and start your own language section, where you can talk in your own language, and your language only.

Posted by: D@V Feb 6 2008, 21:22

So, basically, you're saying the policy of this forum is "speak our languages or f*ck off"? Isn't that a bit hypocritical?

Posted by: JdB Feb 7 2008, 00:51

QUOTE(D@V @ Feb 6 2008, 21:22) *
So, basically, you're saying the policy of this forum is "speak our languages or f*ck off"? Isn't that a bit hypocritical?


Not really, the English section is named that way for a reason, just as the German, French and Czech sections are. We are not responsible for how good or bad people are at any language. You need to make sure your post can be fully understood by us, we shouldn't have to feel the need to guestimate what you meant. If it comes down to that, you're taking chances on getting actions taken against you. The poster is responsible for the existence of his post, and the content of that post, regardless of language abilities, level of education, real life mood, psychological state etc. If you fail to post in what is considered to be a normal way on the internet, it's not the moderator's problem, it's your own.

Posted by: D@V Feb 7 2008, 01:32

QUOTE(JdB @ Feb 6 2008, 23:51) *
Not really, the English section is named that way for a reason, just as the German, French and Czech sections are. We are not responsible for how good or bad people are at any language. You need to make sure your post can be fully understood by us, we shouldn't have to feel the need to guestimate what you meant. If it comes down to that, you're taking chances on getting actions taken against you. The poster is responsible for the existence of his post, and the content of that post, regardless of language abilities, level of education, real life mood, psychological state etc. If you fail to post in what is considered to be a normal way on the internet, it's not the moderator's problem, it's your own.


Which once again, brings us back to the problem of someone who doesn't speak English, German, French or Czech...

Posted by: Wittmann Feb 7 2008, 11:46

These are the most accessible and common languages. OFP.info's other language sections died from lack of activity. Most internet users will speak or be able to find a way to communicate in one of these languages, with the possible inclusion way down the track, if we ever get a significant member base, of a Spanish forum. Until then, if you post in another language, you have to provide a translation, and its preferred you do not post in another language. Its the English forum. Here, you speak English.

Would parliament be receptive to a foreign spokesman speaking to the House of Lords in his or her own language without a translator?
Would you like to have a customer if you worked in retail, try to get advice from you on a product to buy, when they cannot speak to you in their own language? Even the basics is fine so long as one can be understood. When we have members such as JdB whose English is consistently superior in grammatical structure and eloquence then some of our native English speakers, its clear to see nationality is no barrier to enabling one to communicate in a secondary language with some effort. We used to have Russian speakers at OFP.info who used internet translators...hard to understand and some interesting sentence structures? Yes, but they were understood and assisted.

At least we offer a French and German section, unlike the BIS forums, which is Czech and English only. Our current member base does not warrant expansion of language section's at this point in time. Unless your pressing for a Welsh section?

Posted by: Helping Hand Feb 7 2008, 12:52

The fact that I don't think D@V even speaks welsh would render that point either sarcasm or useless no?

Posted by: da rat Feb 7 2008, 13:07

QUOTE(Wittmann @ Feb 7 2008, 10:46) *
Until then, if you post in another language, you have to provide a translation

That was my point in the first place - so you're saying it is in fact alright to post in another language as long as a translation is given? unsure.gif

Posted by: JdB Feb 7 2008, 13:29

No, he was saying that you need to keep your English understandable, and that does not mean providing a translation in your own language, which none of us (as in moderators), nor the vast majority of the other members speaks (the Czech community making up less than 5-10% of the visitors of the site). Things like the Czechs (in the A’SR 1938-1945 topic) using their own language to support their English is not acceptable, as a vast majority of the members doesn't understand that supportive translation to begin with, and has to make due with the English part. If you want to post in German, French or Czech, do it in your own section, or in a PM. People that speak other languages, like Norwegian or Finnish, can stick to PM.

Posted by: pMASTER Feb 7 2008, 16:33

Again we've come across a rule which leaves too much space for interpretation.

Posts completely composed in another language are simply inappropriate, the same complies to posts in "Engrish", i.e. with certain vocabs the author did not know replaced by the corresponding words of his native tongue, or posts which are hardly readable due to a horrific knowledge of grammar and vocabulary. To know at least the basics of the language in which you're going to post in a forum is a requirement the operators of the board are allowed demand from you. This is a rule of format, and I'm convinced of its rightness.

However, at least in the German section, I will not crucify anyone who uses some words of another language which I for my part can identify as not obscene or offensive. Provided that in doing so brings no satisfying results or that I cannot translate them, then I would erase the concerning part of the post.

Since the perfomance presented by Daniel von Rommel lately has been the first flame for a long time now and these forums tend to keep civilized and quiet, I doubt that minor infractions of this rule really require a moderating action beyond a small edit of the displeasing post.

Posted by: Daniel Von Rommel Mar 27 2008, 14:15

QUOTE
Since the perfomance presented by Daniel von Rommel


You're trying to restart?

Take your own part of the share. I wasn't the only one flaming, and actually I have been asking to be peaceful for various consecutive posts, so don't come tell me Only I flamed.


I don't want to restart, But I don't want to be pointed at as "the flamer".

Posted by: Helping Hand Mar 27 2008, 15:16

That point was raised nearly a month ago. I don't really see the point in responding to it when you could of PM'd him about it...

Posted by: Daniel Von Rommel Mar 27 2008, 15:22

Because I noticed it now and I have the bad habit not to look when stuff has been posted

Posted by: pMASTER Mar 28 2008, 23:48

http://forum.armedassault.info/index.php?showtopic=1219&view=findpost&p=38593

QUOTE
And as I have said, and like more members have indicated, it will be none. These threads were made because people wanted to keep politics and military discussions out of the rest of the threads, which is working perfectly well for all but one person, who keeps posting politics and military matters in this thread (yes, that means you), thereby setting the wrong example, that others pick up on.)

So yet again: Any more posting of either subjects, politics outside of the Politics thread, or military outside of the Military Matters thread, will result in the closing of the thread for a few hours or days, and a lengthy PR + possible warning blocks, for anyone ignorant enough to do this, especially people that have been around here long enough to know how it works. That also includes people that later try to downplay bringing up the subject by saying they didn't mean to be serious, when they know perfectly well that anything related to politics or the military gets taken seriously (or rather, taken the wrong way). Also just to be on the safe side since pMASTER usually discusses moderating directions in the thread itself, and this being a moderating direction:[/b]


The marked part must be a joke....

http://forum.armedassault.info/index.php?showtopic=1219&view=findpost&p=38566

http://forum.armedassault.info/index.php?showtopic=1219&view=findpost&p=38545

...because I spot a little nasty contradiction in there. Jdb, you have made two misplaced posts in this thread as well whilst you're ironically issuing warning to others not to do so. So either you allow some excursions from the chatter thread - What is its topic anyway, shall we all go on to produce random gibberish there or can we trivially chat about things everyday life comes up with as normal people do? - or you don't, but then don't make excuses for yourself either.

And that's why I have always warned and demanded to specify the rules.

Posted by: JdB Mar 29 2008, 00:12

QUOTE(pMASTER @ Mar 28 2008, 23:48) *
So either you allow some excursions from the chatter thread - What is its topic anyway, shall we all go on to produce random gibberish there or can we trivially chat about things everyday life comes up with as normal people do? - or you don't, but then don't make excuses for yourself either.

And that's why I have always warned and demanded to specify the rules.


I have no desire to bring up all of the posts where you change subjects by talking about politics or the military, so I will only talk about this specific case. Helping_Hand posts an external application that lets you have fun with "building blocks" that happen to be of a weapon, where as you post the following:

QUOTE
Geert Wilders has published his controversial Anti-Quran-movie today. I'm expecting the usual violent and bigoted fuzz as always. LET THEM COME mad.gif


Might just be me, but I don't see any signs of non-seriousness in that post. It's a political rant. That is what started the issue regarding separate topics for politics and the military. I warned you to stop, your next post contains arguing with a moderator's decision in the form of "That's called current events. And the smiley was indicating the lack of seriousness in my post.", even indicated by Helping_Hand "Now we're discussing moderating actions".

An angry smiley to indicate the lack of seriousness in your post when discussing politics...right boppin2.gif (that smiley seems to work a lot better)

Also it was not my idea to keep the politics and military discussions out of the Community Chatter thread, IIRC Helping_Hand among others, took that initiative. Was a good idea imo.

And you know that I would like more specified rules as well, but that not everyone agrees with that.

Posted by: pMASTER Mar 29 2008, 00:34

QUOTE(JdB @ Mar 29 2008, 00:12) *
I have no desire to bring up all of the posts where you change subjects by talking about politics or the military, so I will only talk about this specific case. Helping_Hand posts an external application that lets you have fun with "building blocks" that happen to be of a weapon, where as you post the following:

And even this would not have belonged into the Chatter thread per its new definition, right?

QUOTE(JdB @ Mar 29 2008, 00:12) *
I have no desire to bring up all of the posts where you change subjects by talking about politics or the military, so I will only talk about this specific case. Helping_Hand posts an external application that lets you have fun with "building blocks" that happen to be of a weapon, where as you post the following:
Might just be me, but I don't see any signs of non-seriousness in that post. It's a political rant. That is what started the issue regarding separate topics for politics and the military. I warned you to stop, your next post contains arguing with a moderator's decision in the form of "That's called current events. And the smiley was indicating the lack of seriousness in my post.", even indicated by Helping_Hand "Now we're discussing moderating actions".

An angry smiley to indicate the lack of seriousness in your post when discussing politics...right boppin2.gif (that smiley seems to work a lot better)

Also it was not my idea to keep the politics and military discussions out of the Community Chatter thread, IIRC Helping_Hand among others, took that initiative. Was a good idea imo.

So what? I regard the Chatter thread as the chit-chat corner of this forum - maybe I'm doing a mistake in believing so, but I accept the internet as a virtual world to do conversations with people I can't get in contact with on other ways - , and I wonder to which topics were conversations in everday life restricted?

And you completely fail to show why your two posts (Yes I harp on about details now but so are you) are excusable whilst mine do represent a commentworthy infraction.
That's what I call double standards.

QUOTE(JdB @ Mar 29 2008, 00:12) *
And you know that I would like more specified rules as well, but that not everyone agrees with that.

Who? You were the one to insist that rules are made by mods exclusively.

Posted by: D@V Mar 29 2008, 01:46

Look, this is just stupid.

How about we let this non-serious (or, pMaster) political chatter in the chatter thread, and keep the politics thread for more serious stuff. It doesn't make any sense to tell people off for talking about... stuff... in the chatter thread, that's why it's there. There was no serious demand for a ORLY OWL thread, was there? There was no serious demand for a FEB thread, was there?

Fact is, the gun discussion wasn't serious because Mark doesn't have a firearms license (and, thankfully, isn't in an occupation where he can apply for one), so there's no way he could have used that gun builder thing for anything other than wasting a few minutes trying to make something that looks nice and he could try and use as the basis for an addon. The discussion wasn't a serious military discussion, it wasn't political. Hell, it was about as off-topic as they come. To be honest, I'm just glad everyone stopped moaning because they aren't getting laid.

If you're going to start telling me that that belonged in the military thread, I'm going to have to start posting my decree's as moon-king of the moon in the politics thread. And no one wants that.

Of course, we all know that this is just because JdB doesn't like pMaster and visaversa, so...

Posted by: d@nte Apr 17 2008, 16:03

i have voted yes at the poll.

about the mother tongue:

i'm french, my english is not really good (grammar, vocabulary). but in the english section, the language is english. people should make some efforts.

QUOTE
The 'official' stance on this is that there is no way of checking/ moderating what the translated version says, so in theory they could be completely different and nobody unable to speak the language in question could tell.


it's true; an exemple.

les modrateurs sont vraiment pourris sur ce forum: false translation: the moderators are great in this forum. right translation: moderators are rotten in this forum.

(btw it's just a example)

personally, I use http://translate.google.com/translate_t?langpair=fr|en .

Posted by: Linker Split Apr 20 2008, 18:36

http://forum.armedassault.info/index.php?showtopic=1594&st=120&start=120

isn't this a form of http://www.angelfire.com/md/imsystem/sibabuse.html? mellow.gif

(DeanosBeano has been working on these 3 years altogeher so , no differences than Bis apart he was alone, and the BI developer more than 1 ^^)

JdB, your action against gamesmaster is more offensive than the way a psychologist can harm a guy.
C'mon, you don't know anything about the ArmA engine, while deanos does very well, and i would trust him more than the holy bible if he says that doing this type of work is more difficult than adding to the engine itself. I'm learning a lot and now I understand that he is right, since:

BIS got some experienced guys, a working TEAM, whose work is to create all these sort of things.
They are like Gods since the engine belongs to them, so then then know how to modify it, how to add features and so on (they added multiple gun turrets on VBS while they didn't for OFP ^^).
I can't see the point of defending BIS, when they appear only to guarantee their interests.
And due to this, I can't see the point of answering that way when someone was trying to explain you the same tmanner I've just told you.

Posted by: JdB Apr 20 2008, 18:54

All I see is an attack on my person. Most of your post isn't about the moderating, it's a continuation of the original thread, which I said I have answered 3 times already. As people seem to be going into this same discussion again and again, I will simply ignore it from now on, since my explanatory posts seem to be invisible to members, requiring me to repost the content to the same quoted bits again and again. Flooding (continuously reposting the same content) is not allowed. I also am under the impression this is an issue for you, since I used your/Deano's work as a comparison to the developing that BIS does on it's games, and that you somehow took it the wrong you.

This is also an individual case, not a discussion on the rules, which is what this thread is for:

QUOTE
[9] No public discussion on how the forum is moderated

If you have questions/complaints/comments that you wish to make about the board or moderators or anything like that please PM them to a moderator, we will do our utmost to reply to any that we receive, please remember we have lives outside of the forum so can't promise to reply immediately. There is also a dedicated thread located http://forum.armedassault.info/index.php?showtopic=38 for discussing the moderating policy, it is meant for the general policy, not for individual cases, that should be restricted to PM.

Posted by: Lordwatson Apr 20 2008, 22:22

Sorry to butt in here, but can somebody check if the Prealpha version of VTE is working Whenever I ahve downloaded it I am told it is corrupt sad.gif

EDIT: WHy the hell did I put this here. Sorry guys, I am really tired tongue.gif

Posted by: D@V Apr 20 2008, 22:29

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with JdB, even if I do secretly wish him a terrible demise. It's a matter of principle. That guy was clearly overstepping the rules. No one cried when user XYZ got banned because they sent King Homer a PM calling him a Nazi, yet someone yells at a moderator publicly and refers to his methods as terrible when they are quite simply doing there jobs, then literally asks to be banned and there's some big hoo-hah?

Frankly, I think anyone here would have reacted in exactly the same manner.

If someone who clearly has no idea what they're talking about came up to me in the street and shouted in my face that I was a worthless worm and accused me of setting fire to kittens I think I'd punch them in the face. There is literally no difference between this or that.

(Except that I do set fire to kittens. Don't judge me. I'm part of a group of unethical cracks who shoot each other for fun! ohmy.gif )

Posted by: d@nte Apr 21 2008, 11:22

QUOTE
Frankly, I think anyone here would have reacted in exactly the same manner.


no, because JDB has closed the discussion by a moderator act. personally I was also surprised by the JDB's reply. And i can understand Gamemaster.

"spamming": what is really the spamming? how only one person can choose if a discussion is spam or not.

personally i don't see spam in the Gamemaster's reply. this is just an other point of view.

Posted by: D@V Apr 21 2008, 13:20

QUOTE(d@nte @ Apr 21 2008, 11:22) *
no, because JDB has closed the discussion by a moderator act. personally I was also surprised by the JDB's reply. And i can understand Gamemaster.

"spamming": what is really the spamming? how only one person can choose if a discussion is spam or not.

personally i don't see spam in the Gamemaster's reply. this is just an other point of view.


The topic is still open, if people want to discuss Linker's modification they should open a thread in the relevant addons section. Likewise, if they want to discuss JdB's actions as a moderator, post here.

As for Gamemaster, I don't think anyone here wants to see these forums descend into a rhetoric hammer contest... (I'm looking at you Rommel!)

Posted by: JdB Apr 21 2008, 16:09

QUOTE(d@nte @ Apr 21 2008, 12:22) *
"spamming": what is really the spamming? how only one person can choose if a discussion is spam or not.


That's why we have a moderating staff, and not a poll that everyone gets to vote in for every moderating decision. No country in the world has a system where everyone gets to judge someone (maybe in ideology, but not in practical use anyway). Forums are not a democracy.

Similar to why we have a Site-team, so only the stuff that is worth being on the site gets put on the site, by people that know what they're doing (well, mostly anyway blues.gif ).

QUOTE
personally i don't see spam in the Gamemaster's reply. this is just an other point of view.


It is not another point of view, since he keeps quoting the same bit, and keeps forcing me to post the same content over and over again because he was unable to accept my explanation the first time. As D@V said, this particular type of spamming is known as "hammering". If he had done it to anyone else, I would have warned him to stop doing it to, it just so happened to involve me in this case. I won't hesitate to make a moderating decision in case it involves myself, since that would render the moderating staff useless.

Posted by: d@nte Apr 25 2008, 16:10

bye bye the ACSR mod; they stop to post here. Why (excepted the 150kb limit for pictures)? it's not a complain, just curiosity. blues.gif

from BIS forum:

QUOTE
When ArmedAssault.info admins haven just probleme opposite us mod, we stoped all posts at ArmedAssualt.info.

Posted by: D@V Apr 25 2008, 17:41

Heh.

The image size limit on the BI forums is even worse. I hope they have fun ^^

(Still think it should have been upped to 200kb...)

Posted by: JdB Apr 25 2008, 19:08

If anyone feels they can't live with rules being enforced, or the exact content of these rules, they're free to leave. Everyone agrees to adhere to the rules when they register. Personally I'm not too bothered about them leaving. At least 80% of the reports in the Moderators' private section of the last few months are about members of this mod violating rules repeatedly, fact-bending, flaming staff, making false accusations and offending people offering constructive criticism on their work. When at least 80% of the total time moderating is spent on keeping a single individual or group in line, that is telling. After several staff members have tried their best to reason with a group, both individually and as part of a larger discussion, with zero result except flaming, false accusations and continued violations, sometimes just moving on is the best idea. If this means we won't have to put up with these things, then the whole forum will be better off.

We already compromised for the increased broadband usage worldwide and ever increasing screen-size by raising the limit to 150kb, 100kb just being a relic of the 90's. Took away 85% of the file-size violations, although there are some repeat-offenders.

The file size for images will be increased to 200kb.










In about 5 years.

Posted by: d@nte Apr 26 2008, 05:06

why they don't use thumbnails? it's easy and better in my opinion Malajn.gif

Posted by: pMASTER May 1 2008, 00:37

Because they appear to be as stubborn as I am. It's funny though that an entire bunch of people shows this attitude as if they were one person.

Posted by: JdB May 1 2008, 11:51

I could send this to one person that did it this time, but since we get this increasingly often I will tell it to everyone:

The "Report" function is for serious problems only, not for deleting accidental double posts, or other mistakes you happen to make.

Posted by: Rellikki May 22 2008, 00:17

QUOTE(JdB @ May 22 2008, 00:45) *
Doomek, are you not seeing posts made by certain members?
A repeat violation makes for another 12hr PR and a permanent warning block. Always list your addons.


I don't know how do you do it, but I think it would be the best to send a private message to the PR'd member about their violation of the rules. Otherwise they might not notice that they have been PR'd / what did they do wrong, if they won't notice your post in the thread where you PR'd them or if they are away during that PR time... But if you already do send them private messages about the violation of the rules, then ok, I guess Doomek was kinda blind... blink.gif

Posted by: JdB May 22 2008, 00:44

QUOTE(Rellikki @ May 22 2008, 01:17) *
I don't know how do you do it, but I think it would be the best to send a private message to the PR'd member about their violation of the rules. Otherwise they might not notice that they have been PR'd / what did they do wrong, if they won't notice your post in the thread where you PR'd them or if they are away during that PR time... But if you already do send them private messages about the violation of the rules, then ok, I guess Doomek was kinda blind... blink.gif


I stopped sending PMs for anything that is mentioned explicitly at the start of a topic like the additional rules of several topics, or things that are common sense (the more straightforward rules like spam, flooding, warez), since A.) They're in plain sight B.) I would end up having to write and send dozens of PMs a month. Dealing with everything through PM adds the additional disadvantages that A.) People act like moderators by correcting others because they're not aware of the actions already taken by moderators, ending up in spam(ming a thread off-topic) B.) Do not serve as general reminders to anyone else.

Like when someone posts warez I don't PM them to say that they're banned, I just write it in the topic. There is no point in contacting them personally since their "mistake" is so obvious(ly wrong). Doing this only attracts verbal abuse like most of my PMs in the last few months have with the really problematic cases that I sent to. One thing that is done through PM is signature violations, since it doesn't apply to any particular post unlike for example the not listing of addons, Deadeye tends to add a notice in the user's signature (I don't know if he also sends a PM).

Posted by: Deadeye May 22 2008, 10:09

As you already said Rellikki the user does get a PM when a WB is added. I usually add the link to the topic and the reason why the PR/WB was handed out. As a new PM always pops up when you load the forum there's litterally no way of not getting informed about the breach of the rules.

For signature violation I hardly ever PM the person though.

Posted by: BigglesTrevor May 25 2008, 21:57

i must be special because i got a pm of both of you about mine.

Posted by: JdB Jun 8 2008, 15:36

Unlike usual, the latest rules update wasn't announced when it was introduced (3 April 2008), but to counter all "I didn't know"s, some alterations were made to the rules after an extensive discussion (only rules that have been changed/added are shown):

QUOTE
As it is impossible to plan for every possible situation, the moderators reserve the right to discuss extraordinary matters internally, and if necessary to take action against anyone that damages the integrity of the site, site team or moderating staff, even if there is no specific rule against what they have done/are doing.


[1] No discussion on game-alterations that break the EULA

Discussions about copy protection or copying, backing-up, hacking, cracking or reverse engineering of BIS games, or any other software will not be tolerated. Such discussions may be deleted immediately. Any breach of this rule may result in the poster no longer having access to the site and forums. If the poster produces addons, the site-team may decide to have his/their addons banned from the site.


[6] No posting of explicit graphics

No posting of videos, pictures and other types of graphical media containing porn, real killing, mutilations, wounds, carnage, and other disgusting/explicit images. This also includes links to pages that contain such content. There have been a number of incidents where people have linked to news sites which unbeknownst to them contains obscene images a few mouse clicks away, while we can't expect people to check every link on a site it is strongly suggested that whenever making a post about a news item the post is structured in a way that provides the information without risk of breaching the rules. If you're ever unsure as to whether or not a link should be posted on the forum feel free to PM a moderator for guidance.


[7] No usage of content of forbidden organisations

This includes, but is not limited to organisations, symbols and propaganda messages of organizations like Nazi/neo-nazi parties, Hamas, Al-Qaeda, and other organizations that are on international lists of terrorist organizations, or forbidden by the European Union or any of it's member states. The European Union's list of forbidden people and organizations can be found http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/lex/LexUriServ/site/en/oj/2005/l_340/l_34020051223en00640066.pdf.


[9] No public discussion on how the forum is moderated

If you have questions/complaints/comments that you wish to make about the board or moderators or anything like that please PM them to a moderator, we will do our utmost to reply to any that we receive, please remember we have lives outside of the forum so can't promise to reply immediately. There is also a dedicated thread located http://forum.armedassault.info/index.php?act=SR&f=11 for discussing the moderating policy, it is meant for the general policy, not for individual cases, that should be restricted to PM.


[11] No advertisement about non ArmA related stuff

Do not use the forum to make direct or indirect advertisement concerning something not related to ArmA. Commercial ventures that are not licensed by BIS itself, or any other party that owns the content in question, and does not allow the poster to exploit it are not allowed either.


[12] No posting of VBS information

ArmedAssault.info is dedicated to BIS games only so absolutely no discussion of VBS in any of its incarnations is allowed.


[13] No images are to be posted in the English section that exceed 150kb's filesize.

You may be post restricted after your first warning for failure to comply with this rule.


[14] Images may not be made up of more than 1 file

This rule is meant to ensure that 13 is successful in keeping the forum easy to access for all people regardless of their hardware. An image must be made of a single, continuous file. When more than one file is used, we will take action against the poster.


[4] Do not double, triple etc -post

If you make several posts in a short amount of time rather than editing your original post, this will be considered flooding. After a first warning you may be post restricted for failure to comply with this rule. This does not include accidentaly posting multiple times through browser or server errors.


[8] Write in English

As this is the English part of the board please write in English. Don't write in any other language since the majority of the members most likely won't understand. Posting in any language other than English and providing a translation in English is also not allowed, since we cannot check the accuracy of the translation.


Changed
Changed
Changed
Added
Changed
Changed
Changed
Changed
Added
Added
Changed

Posted by: brataccas Jul 1 2008, 22:08

LMAO. a thread got locked for being bumped for a short 2 months XD I would just like to point out that this silly forum is rly bizzare so I am leaving this dump for another 4 months biggrin.gif (posted in here incase its mistaken for a moderation method or some crap like that ) laters all smile.gif

Posted by: Daniel Jul 3 2008, 11:04

Aye, this is one of those rare occasions where I agree with brataccas. Try not to be too trigger happy in locking posts, some people may have more to add. Surely adding to a thread of a certain topic is better than lots of locked/unlocked threads of similar subject.

Posted by: JdB Jul 3 2008, 14:34

QUOTE(Daniel @ Jul 3 2008, 12:04) *
Aye, this is one of those rare occasions where I agree with brataccas. Try not to be too trigger happy in locking posts, some people may have more to add. Surely adding to a thread of a certain topic is better than lots of locked/unlocked threads of similar subject.


Brataccas has a warning level of 80%, which he didn't get for simply posting in a locked topic or similar (rather attacking moderating and site team on numerous occasions). I warned him not to violate any more rules, which he replied to that he forgot because he hadn't been on the forum in a while. Barely 30 minutes later he then posted in all capital letters in an old thread, adding nothing to the subject that was a valid reason to revive the thread. This shows that he simply doesn't respect the rules, or the people enforcing them. He had been told not to break any rules. As these two violations are both rules here, and Brataccas has shown not to be all that interested in staying here, he is hereby banned from the forums. He has had enough chances already, including the unique instance where he was unbanned, and being forgiven the creation of several duplicate accounts, to be given a last chance. I again gave him a last chance when I told him not to break any more rules. Our patience is not endless.

I have discussed this with Helping Hand, and he didn't think it deserved a ban, but I have decided to overrule him, as he hasn't witnessed the amount of abuse that brataccas has produced, and the total lack of interest in following the rules.

As mentioned in http://forum.armedassault.info/index.php?showtopic=2029, problems that have been resolved before in earlier topics do not need new topics, if someone is too lazy to search for the answer with the Search feature, then their thread is closed. Topics that have ceased to be of use, either because the problem has been resolved, or due to the age of the topic and lack of a valid reason for reviving, will also be closed.

As said many times before, the Chatter, Word Games & Jokes section is meant for subjects that are not directly linked to BIS games or the military, but must have a sane subject, and must abide with the forum rules, and is not like what brataccas seems to think judging by some of the topics he created, a free-for-all.

Posted by: pMASTER Jul 4 2008, 03:02

I'll miss his spammery, he was somewhat the Hawkeye Pierce of these forums.

Posted by: SaS TrooP Jul 21 2008, 21:48

http://forum.armedassault.info/index.php?s=&showtopic=2266&view=findpost&p=46783

Yes, but also should be in Combat Photography IMHO.

It's only a add notation. smile.gif

Posted by: Deadeye Jul 22 2008, 00:04

QUOTE(SaS TrooP @ Jul 21 2008, 22:48) *
http://forum.armedassault.info/index.php?s=&showtopic=2266&view=findpost&p=46783

Yes, but also should be in Combat Photography IMHO.

It's only a add notation. smile.gif


QUOTE
SaS TrooP, screenshots with information about the subject meant as a promotion for the mod should mainly be posted in the mod's thread, where it is most appropriate wink.gif

You see...

JdB said, mainly not only ! No problem if they are posted in the CP Thread aswell but not every visitor looks through the CP thread. If I'd look for info about the Bushwars Mod, my first thought would be to check out the dedicated mod thread.

Posted by: SaS TrooP Jul 23 2008, 12:54

Yea, here you are right.

Posted by: Benoist Jul 27 2008, 04:01

QUOTE
Benoist, firstly: your comment is best placed here
where it actually contributes something to the topic as aposed to here.
Secondly, not all newsposters have the time to monitor the BI forums 60/60/24/7 as you seem to be expecting of them due to other comitments in real life, for example I have 2 jobs which take up almost every hour I am awake leaving little time for finding and posting news around actually having a life.

Anyway, unless you have something to actually say about the news item don't comment.

sad.gif

Posted by: pMASTER Jul 27 2008, 10:02

Now that's a rather useless one smiley reply. What do you wanna adress us with?

Posted by: JdB Jul 27 2008, 10:38

QUOTE(pMASTER @ Jul 27 2008, 11:02) *
Now that's a rather useless one smiley reply. What do you wanna adress us with?


Furthermore, where was it posted? (I searched, but couldn't find it)
Who posted it?

A link to the topic could have been useful, smiley-only replies are not useful, they're considered spam, and so even more moderating actions are required:

QUOTE
[5] No Spam

We deem spam as making a thread or posting a reply that has no real worth, is irrelevant, useless and offers nothing to a discussion, that is posted outside the Chatter, Word Games & Jokes sub-forum of the forum's which has its own rules stickied in the sub-forum. Posts that are in place of a moderator and are misleading or not needed, or that are not in line with the topic and contribute nothing of any worth can also be considered spam. Responding to a spam-bot on the forum will be considered spam and will lead to a post restriction. Spam is not limited to text, posting an image as a means of spam or a spam'esque URL will also result in the same response from a moderator. With spam being hard to define, it is another example of something left to moderator's discretion, if in doubt ask yourself "does my reply add to the discussion in a way for the discussion to continue further"? If not then think of something "meatier" to add to the thread. Repeated spamming will result in a Warning Level increase.

Posted by: pMASTER Jul 27 2008, 10:50

Being that said, it's enough work to translate the news what I usually do, to find interesting topics and to create the news about it like the others do is even more work. As mentioned above, everyone of us has other commitmens as well and I'm convinced that short delays are acceptable for the users here.
Apart from that, if a newsposter spots something milestone-like he doesn't want to withhold from you, you can rest assured that he'll make a news out of it either way.

wink.gif

Posted by: JdB Jul 27 2008, 11:20

After some searching I managed to locate the origin, being the site's comment system. Basically if you're not happy with the site, you can leave at any time, and whiny posts in either the comment system or forums won't make us give up on things that are more important than posting on a website.

Also I don't see how this relates to the way the forum is moderated, there is a "Site questions/problems/comments" thread for this.

Posted by: JynX Jul 27 2008, 12:07

Edit: I should really press the submit button sooner after typing...

Origonal comment:

I posted it in reply to this:
<a href="http://www.armedassault.info/index.php?cat=comments&type=news&id=1086" target="_blank">

QUOTE
Wow, this is an old new (je, bit ironic).

I used to love ArmedAssault.info news, but you are being a bit late in the news, I have abandoned you for ArmAholic.
</a>

I'll take the rap for whatever I've done wrong in Benoist's eyes but I do get touchy when some one makes a dig at either the site or myself when I've spent my one day off work this week constantly browsing the BI threads and here for an update (that being the only one I found being those WIP that no one here had reported on). I'd also like to point out Old Bear has kindly updated the post for the release of the addon.

Posted by: Benoist Jul 27 2008, 19:12

Erase it if you want, I couldn't care less.

You are a bit sensitive today, isn't it?
I could act as a news poster, or as a news finder (which I'd do better since I get tired of writing the same everyday).

Posted by: Helping Hand Jul 27 2008, 19:35

Then why not apply to be as one instead of acting as you are at the moment. tiredsmiley.gif

Posted by: Deadeye Jul 27 2008, 20:09

QUOTE(Benoist @ Jul 27 2008, 20:12) *
I could act as a news poster, or as a news finder (which I'd do better since I get tired of writing the same everyday).

Thats a far better attitude smile.gif

If you want to try newsposting ... no problem at all. Any help is appreciated. Just PM me wink.gif However attacking the site or any team member for not updating the news is a no go. As Jynx pointed out the site is only a hobby. If we have got more important issues to deal with the news won't be updated. At the moment some newsposter are on vacation and our team is kinda small.

Posted by: Cervo Jul 27 2008, 21:41

Yeah let's take Benoist into the team as a newsposter, and if his activity level is less than 50% i'll leave sarcastic comments on his profile ! wink.gif
Nah just kidding, but I can understand why Jynx felt pissed off by this comment, he isn't over sensitive, it's just that unconstructive criticism when you try to do your best for the others, is not something you would like to read everyday.

Posted by: Avalla'ch Aug 2 2008, 14:41

Can I ask why is Dave from our team banned ? blink.gif At least point me at the topic/message tha twas the reason.. It seems that almost everybody from our team is banned or what wacko.gif

Posted by: pMASTER Aug 2 2008, 14:51

Which team? And who is 'us'?

I'm again a bit slow on the uptake, it seems.

Posted by: Helping Hand Aug 2 2008, 14:54

Quite a few people from ACSR are banned from the forums.

Posted by: Avalla'ch Aug 2 2008, 15:01

I know only about peter, so it means I am the only good boy ?

QUOTE(pMASTER @ Aug 2 2008, 15:51) *
Which team? And who is 'us'?


Check my signature blues.gif

Posted by: Deadeye Aug 2 2008, 15:34

Gimme a link to daves profile, and I'll have a look wink.gif

Edit: This dave ? http://forum.armedassault.info/index.php?showuser=3102 <-- he isn't banned, he just didn't validate his account yet wink.gif

Posted by: Avalla'ch Aug 2 2008, 16:23

Nope I think it's not him smile.gif
Peter told me that most of our team mates are banned so I am checking out what is the truth. I am actually interested in re-opening our topic. (Found Imagebam as a great image hoster, so no more 150 Kb issues should happen wink.gif )

Posted by: JdB Aug 2 2008, 16:24

QUOTE(Deadeye @ Aug 2 2008, 16:34) *
Gimme a link to daves profile, and I'll have a look wink.gif

Edit: This dave ? http://forum.armedassault.info/index.php?showuser=3102 <-- he isn't banned, he just didn't validate his account yet wink.gif


DaveRaziel is what he means (at least that is the only person that has "Dave" in his nickname from the people that post in the Czech forum). His warning log is empty, and he doesn't appear to be in the validating account group (unless he has changed his e-mail address, which IIRC needs authorization by an admin), so he should be able to post.

Posted by: BigglesTrevor Aug 21 2008, 02:19

QUOTE
I posted a warning at 18:44GMT not to post in all-capital letters anymore, you posted sooner after that, so I assume you saw what I wrote (although it's irrelevant whether you saw it or not, since it's clearly mentioned in the forum rules). At 22:52GMT you ignored those instructions. For this you're receiving another warning block and a 24hr post restriction. You have received warning blocks before for failure to comply with a moderator's instructions on two occasions already. We think it's time you take the hint.


I must say i found this PR very harsh. The person in questions posts were only capital letters to express shouting in dialogue and titles to different segmants. His actual use of capitals is probably no more than 5% of the word count of his post, so i wouldnt even personally concider it a overuse of capital letters. I always thought a PR for capital writing was intended for those who insisted in replying in all capitals throughout the post, not certian segmants of the post. That was my interpretation anyway.

Posted by: JdB Aug 21 2008, 02:40

QUOTE(BigglesTrevor @ Aug 21 2008, 03:19) *
I must say i found this PR very harsh. The person in questions posts were only capital letters to express shouting in dialogue and titles to different segmants. His actual use of capitals is probably no more than 5% of the word count of his post, so i wouldnt even personally concider it a overuse of capital letters. I always thought a PR for capital writing was intended for those who insisted in replying in all capitals throughout the post, not certian segmants of the post. That was my interpretation anyway.


3-4 words maximum (with the exception of abbreviations like MSN, IRC etc), otherwise it equals to yelling, which this certainly was (and no topic in the entire forum is exempt from that rule for whatever reason). Raphael is insistent on ignoring a moderator's instructions, which he has done both in the French section and here, ignoring both CoPTe and myself on 2 previous occasions, his failure to comply is what got him another warning block and PR. The all-caps rule is a minor rule in that it doesn't immediately end up in PRs, but when it means seeing a consistent pattern of behaviour, such as the ignoring of a moderator's instructions, any rule can get you PRed or WL increased, 1+1=2. You have to see this in the context, and you don't know the context since you can't see his warning log wink.gif (although I do recall specifically mentioning this in the thread)

There are some others that consistently ignore or "forget" instructions given to them by moderators. It is only logical that we take that into account when they do the same thing again next time, the same as it is for every repeated violation.

Posted by: communistbastard Aug 21 2008, 04:08

I think there needs to be a bit better moderation attention put towards the Mission editing and scripting section.

Recently there have been a spate of infractions in this sub forum. Today one guy posted four threads about a similar topic (nothing happened), a couple days ago someone bumped his own topic (again nothing), and then on top of this all there has been a lot of stupid questions being asked, which easily could have been answered by simple searching (which is clearly stated as a first step in the thread labeled Read First Before Posting A New Topic).

Posted by: BigglesTrevor Aug 21 2008, 10:33

QUOTE(JdB @ Aug 21 2008, 02:40) *
3-4 words maximum (with the exception of abbreviations like MSN, IRC etc), otherwise it equals to yelling, which this certainly was (and no topic in the entire forum is exempt from that rule for whatever reason). Raphael is insistent on ignoring a moderator's instructions, which he has done both in the French section and here, ignoring both CoPTe and myself on 2 previous occasions, his failure to comply is what got him another warning block and PR. The all-caps rule is a minor rule in that it doesn't immediately end up in PRs, but when it means seeing a consistent pattern of behaviour, such as the ignoring of a moderator's instructions, any rule can get you PRed or WL increased, 1+1=2. You have to see this in the context, and you don't know the context since you can't see his warning log wink.gif (although I do recall specifically mentioning this in the thread)

There are some others that consistently ignore or "forget" instructions given to them by moderators. It is only logical that we take that into account when they do the same thing again next time, the same as it is for every repeated violation.


ahh right fair enough then.

Posted by: JdB Aug 21 2008, 16:41

QUOTE(communistbastard @ Aug 21 2008, 05:08) *
I think there needs to be a bit better moderation attention put towards the Mission editing and scripting section.

Recently there have been a spate of infractions in this sub forum. Today one guy posted four threads about a similar topic (nothing happened), a couple days ago someone bumped his own topic (again nothing), and then on top of this all there has been a lot of stupid questions being asked, which easily could have been answered by simple searching (which is clearly stated as a first step in the thread labeled Read First Before Posting A New Topic).


I agree on this. I don't read that section completely, I only wander into it to look for stuff like the obvious image violations, duplicate topics, starting new topics when it is already being discussed in an existing thread, doubleposting etc, because I don't know that much about scripting, and so can't make a decision on content-matter.

In the OFP.info forums I appointed a moderator specifically for the Mission Editing & Scripting section that was an ace scripter himself (Duck of Death). If there is anyone that is good enough with mission editing and scripting, we could consider doing the same thing for these forums, but it has to be brainstormed on first.

As for the other (more generic moderating) problems you mentioned, I merged the 4 topics into one, but couldn't find the bumping that you mentioned (note that we do not consider a post by the same member that adds significantly to the topic after more than 24 hours as a "bump"). The only bump that I saw had been dealt with by Helping Hand already. Also of course the "Report" function is still operational wink.gif

On a sidenote: The way that images are being shown (especially in Combat Photography threads) is also being reviewed.

Posted by: Avalla'ch Sep 3 2008, 15:40

Who is responsible for opening/closing topics ?

I would like to write a PM to that person wink.gif

Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)