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Armed Assault Info Forums _ OT Discussions _ BIS developers arrested for alleged espionage in Greece
Posted by: pMASTER Sep 11 2012, 19:34
Greek news sites are reporting that two Czechs have been arrested on Lemnos, after taking photographs and video of military installations. The two claim to be developers working for Bohemia Interactive, out gathering reference material for Arma 3, which takes place on the Greek island. This hasn’t yet washed with the Greek authorities who’ve slapped them with espionage charges.
The story has been confirmed by Marek Spanel, CEO and co-founder of Bohemia Interactive, who elected not to discuss the matter any further on the official Bohemia Interactive forums, “at least until we know more specific details about the case.”
Awesome!
Posted by: JdB Sep 11 2012, 21:48
You'd almost think that the Greek government is cooperating with BIS to create as much publicity as possible for ArmA3. Would be about time those lazy gits started earning their bailouts 
Anyways: Initiate the totally unrelated Operation Prison Bailout! 
Posted by: Mark-HH Sep 11 2012, 22:01
If only they could work this somehow into the campaign...
Posted by: Elliot Carver Sep 11 2012, 22:06
You talking about Greece or BIS with that bailout? We all bought A2 lol
Must be a hard choice for Spanel now ... deciding between paying bail or making a profit on A3 
Posted by: Blackscorpion Sep 11 2012, 22:08
Oh, c'mon... just run to the Hind and fly to safety! Or steal the BMP...
Posted by: JdB Sep 12 2012, 00:08
If they had worked on improving CQB some time in the last 10 years, they might have known how to avoid being arrested in the first place
Posted by: Elliot Carver Sep 12 2012, 01:08
This is where we wake up tomorrow to find the Czech Republic has invaded Greece 
Posted by: fX8 Sep 12 2012, 12:36
Well this is funny and sad at the same time xD
Posted by: Elliot Carver Sep 13 2012, 10:40
Dont know if you guys are following this but BIS said yesterday (i think) that the two were on holiday lol. Way to go hand the case to the Greeks. Its pretty obvious they were taking pictures and video of the base and stuff inside and the cameras will be full of it for content for A3. They even admitted it in posts on the BIForums (carried by some news networks) before closing threads down and issuing a statement. They've had run-ins before with the Greeks over this and last time they were told to seek the proper authority so this time i expect they'll get the book thrown at them.
[[NOTE: views expressed in this post, thread and website are copyrighted and not to be reproduced, copied, quoted or in any way mentioned anywhere without express permission from me.]]
Posted by: Elliot Carver Sep 13 2012, 10:40
Stupid IPBoard double return key stroke MULTIPLE POST issue
Czech nationals arrested in Greece await decision by state prosecutor
Two Czech nationals arrested on spying charges on the island of Limnos in Greece could potentially face up to 20 years in prison – if their case were to go to trial and the two were found guilty. The head of the Czech consulate in Athens Blanka Kovacsová outlined the situation on Wednesday in an interview for the Czech news agency. The state prosecutor overseeing the case has not yet decided whether the two men, aged 28 and 33, will be remanded in custody or be allowed to post bail. The duo’s public defender has requested an expanded investigation that would see witnesses be called to give depositions. The two Czechs have said in their defence that they were only researching material for a computer game; they were caught recording footage of a Greek military base as well as a local airport.
Posted by: JdB Sep 13 2012, 14:08
For a people so obsessed with their supposed mortal enemies the Turks they sure have lousy security if vital military installations can be observed from public areas without overwatch positions being off-limits. We have all our bases surrounded by forrests with fences, guards with dogs and other security measures
The Greeks must be able to do that, as their defence budget seems limitless (no surprise really as they can invest the entire pension of all Northern Europeans 
)
Posted by: Elliot Carver Sep 13 2012, 16:09
Well when your country looks like a noobs first venture into Visitor your alright 
Greece has a history of nicking people outside its bases for photography but then again so does the uk and most other countries. Just the Greeks are crap at keeping it from the media. I was sat outside Boscombe Down a few years ago which has a strict no photography rule being the uk's R&D testing site. Been sat there for a few hours enjoying the Jags rocking over when a dude turns up in a clapped out Ford Escort. About 10 mins in he climbs into the back seat and pops open the boot so he can take pictures of the aircraft on finals. It was just the two of us down there so i drove off and moved the car to a vantage point further up the hill. It wasn't long before two black landrover defenders shot past and mod plod jumped the guy, had his camera off him and sent him off. They stopped by me on the way back up and we had a laugh about how much of a dick he was but they asked me to move on too. He said i spend way to much time down there as my numberplate had been logged there 26 times 
i thought he was taking this piss till i added it up lol
[[NOTE: views expressed in this post, thread and website are copyrighted and not to be reproduced, copied, quoted or in any way mentioned anywhere without express permission from me.]]
Posted by: JdB Sep 13 2012, 16:46
That's why I mentioned keeping overwatch positions off-limits. When you situate your base in a valley, you make sure you control all of the high ground surrounding it as well. Otherwise you might as well post all of your secrets on Wikipedia (though it would likely be removed anyway for not providing sufficient sources
).
Posted by: Elliot Carver Sep 15 2012, 03:07
So ive done a bit of digging and come across a Greek fan boy A3 site - http://www.arma3.gr/ Google Translate makes it about readable and about 3 news posts in they carry an article which is ... libelous at best. It goes into some detail about the two Devs who got picked up and BIS's activities on Lemnos over the past few years etc. I'll quote the final part of the article as it speaks for itself and perhaps the Greek side of the whole fiasco.
The director admits that, before embarking on missions in Lemnos, preparations were kept for several weeks in a similar area outside Brno, Czech Republic. During the lesson, the experts had to daily "partner" in Google Earth, studying maps, chose carefully the points to be photographed or videotape and recorded their daily itineraries, without explaining whether their interest was directed to the movements of military vehicles or to ... bus routes! Many details about a computer game, is not it?
But more worrying is elsewhere ... the revelation of Ivan Buchta that the transfer of the real environment of Lemnos on computer screens, it is only one part of the development of the game, but "a whole development" means "growth. The very long story ... ". He concludes:
"Our effort is directly related to the requirements, military clients, needing display 1:1 (life-size) of the operative field!"
Who are these "military customers" and why have "requirements" of a game production company, does not explain the Czech director. However, if you consider that «Bohemia Interactive» available to every detail about weapons, missiles, helicopters and everything else is the latest technology of NATO, easily understands that given the rich material.
Does all of these were for nothing? Or does the "return" is the assignment of the optical material, and if so, will be entitled to use all the NATO countries, including those who do not want ...?
They make a fair point. Greeks don't want the Turks buying VBS with their back door to the Aegean sea perfectly mapped to train on. Turkey has in the past disputed claims to Lemnos Island hence why Greece stuck a phat runway on it and enough infrastructure for 10,000 troops.
[[NOTE: views expressed in this post, thread and website are copyrighted and not to be reproduced, copied, quoted or in any way mentioned anywhere without express permission from me.]]
Posted by: pMASTER Sep 15 2012, 06:33
Did I get that straight? The Greeks fear BIS could prelude a Greek invasion of Lemnos?
Posted by: Elliot Carver Sep 15 2012, 10:03
Well an unspecified 'military customer' who "will be entitled to use [Lemnos content] all the NATO countries, including those who do not want ...?". Sorry the translation is pants but the best i could get out of google. Yeah basically the article - originally sourced from a prominent Greek news broadcaster - says that its worried BISs VBS training sim could be bought by Greeks enemies, including NATO members, (Turkey) and used to propagate an attack, be it military or terrorist, on Greek soil.
From the Greek point of view the two Devs were nicked taking pics of military bases and hardware, without permission, with an eye to sell it to people Greece doesn't like and this is the second time they've been caught. The espionage charge is quite legitimate when you break it down like this. I doubt the Devs will get 20 years in the clink but i bet Greece makes a big fuss over handing these guys back.
[[NOTE: views expressed in this post, thread and website are copyrighted and not to be reproduced, copied, quoted or in any way mentioned anywhere without express permission from me.]]
Posted by: JdB Sep 15 2012, 14:23
VBS has never included ArmA (/OFP) islands just like ArmA (/OFP) has never included VBS islands. I´m not even sure whether it´s even allowed under the VBS license, VBS comes with it´s own terrains specifically designed for military purposes (that doesn´t even mean true-to-life terrain, but rather terrain suited for running the very specific simulations that those customers want regardless of resemblance to real world locations). Capture The Island is not something VBS customers use the application for. Squad to platoon level communication and procedures like clearing IEDs are what VBS is for, not complete simulations of an island invasion.
Posted by: D@V£ Sep 15 2012, 18:40
Whether it's "allowed" won't stop larger organizations. There's legal precedent in the EU that basically makes EULAs worthless. And don't forget, just because VBS isn't intended for large scale simulations doesn't mean it isn't capable of them.
(Though, it's not like Turkey are actually planning to invade Greek territory. The way things are going, it'll cheaper for them to just buy the islands!
)
Posted by: JdB Sep 15 2012, 19:11
Then that larger organisation will simply send professional spies to the island, use it's sattelites or place a sub or UAV close to the island, and obtain a far more accurate representation of the island than BIS ever will. The island isn't even going to be full scale nor accurate since it's customized to fit BIS's gameplay needs.
"Yeah ... sorry General, our airstrike in Operation Pearl Harbor 2 sort of failed because BIS made the island on a 2:3 scale and we didn't take the difference into account. We hope your HQ wasn't too badly damaged.
Oopsy,
Achmed, Commander Simulation Division of the Armed Forces of Turkey"
If you are going to use a real world location for running simulations on how to best invade it, it needs to be true to life, not somewhat-with-quite-a-bit-of-imagination-if-you-try-real-hard. I wouldn't try to invade the islands that inspired the original OFP islands after running 10 years worth of simulations on those either.
Posted by: Elliot Carver Sep 17 2012, 11:35
Its good to get some fresh news on the situation out there (posted on .info news site) but i have a question. If they "took photographs and videos in public areas, as countless tourists arriving to enjoy the beauty and hospitality of Greece may well do." why were they singled out to be arrested? For local coppers to arrest two random tourists and charge them with the capital offense of espionage they must have done something to warrant the charge? A simple google search brings up plenty of snaps of Lemnos airport? Im not questioning BISs statement, im questioning the Greek authorities decision to press charges and the reasoning behind it.
Posted by: JdB Sep 17 2012, 16:43
From BIS forums: 'The arrest took place on September 9th near their hotel'.
If they had been caught red-handed, I doubt the military police (who I assume would be guarding such high level installations) would let them go to hand the matter over to local cops to make the arrest, since if they really were thought of as spies they could have transfered the data over to their handler and the data would be out of the country in no time. The mayor of Lemnos wasn't happy, not in the least that he couldn't do much if anything about the portrayal of the island in the game so now they try to play poker by trying to bluf BIS into giving up the idea 'or else'.
Posted by: D@V£ Sep 17 2012, 17:56
From what I gather, BIS had previously asked permission from the Greek army to take photos within restricted areas (as in, offically visiting one of the bases) and were refused, hence why they've been singled out.
Posted by: pMASTER Sep 17 2012, 18:22
With that being said, still a massive overreaction for Greece's part.
Posted by: Old Bear Sep 17 2012, 20:01
Have a look at the statement from Ota Vrtatko
A quick search on YouTube will give you a nice collections of views of the military base :
- SuperPuma landing on Limnos : (simulating 1 motor failure), nice view of airport
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkxmBWrJ1I0
- Dash_Q8-400 Limnos-Athens flyght (have a look on 2 first minutes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rY5weEsLlo
- Cesna Caravan landing on Limnos : (have a look on 2 last minutes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__T4v2i50JA
For me it look just like they have been framed by some local official ... and of course asking for a ransom is an international sport.
Posted by: D@V£ Sep 17 2012, 21:37
How so? It's not uncommon for game devs (or any media folk) to try to get permission to visit military facilities for research. It's actually rather common practice, in fact.
As JdB's already said, if they were just waltzing into bases after being told they couldn't, they'd be detained by MPs. I don't know how competent the greek army is, but I don't think they wouldn't notice a bunch of East Europeans wandering around with cameras taking pictures of their bombs
Posted by: pMASTER Sep 18 2012, 05:46
You said they were denied a permission and took pictures anyway?
Posted by: fX8 Sep 18 2012, 05:57
A quick search on YouTube will give you a nice collections of views of the military base :
- SuperPuma landing on Limnos : (simulating 1 motor failure), nice view of airport
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkxmBWrJ1I0
- Dash_Q8-400 Limnos-Athens flyght (have a look on 2 first minutes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rY5weEsLlo
- Cesna Caravan landing on Limnos : (have a look on 2 last minutes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__T4v2i50JA
For me it look just like they have been framed by some local official ... and of course asking for a ransom is an international sport.
I'm sure that devs are not guilty. Greeks just have their own reason to do that.
Posted by: Elliot Carver Sep 18 2012, 09:10
Operation Prison Bailout
Briefing:
Buchta and Pezlar are currently held in a Police station in the seaside town of Mytilene on Lesvos an adjacent island to Lemnos. Devs to be recovered from Police custody and extracted back to the Checz Republic. Mission start 00:00 GMT 19th Sept 2012
.info Team makes way to Athens Inl' and boards flight Aegean Airlines #252 to Mytilene Departing 09:00.
09:50 #252 lands on Lesvos at Mytilene Airport. Team hires 2 cars from 'lesvoscarhire' at their airport hub.
Leaving one car near Mytilene police station the team continues on to an apartment at the'Hotel Votsala' 15mins North of Mytilene.
Plan:
Using a high profile distraction the team will hit the police station, remove the Devs and make west for the coast.
15:30 the team splits into two.
Team 2 dropping team 1 in Mytilene leaves for Mytilene Municipal district offices of the mayor in the car and delivers a viable suspect package. They call it in to Lesvos police who react en mass. Team 2 moves south along the coast to the airport where they set a fire that blankets the approach to the airport.
Mytilene police station, Lesvos.
Team 1 mean while makes its way to the police station. As the police react to the serious, seemingly terrorist, threat Team 1 enters the disorientated station and in the confusion, recovers Buchta and Pezlar. Exiting the police station they board the first car they left that morning.
Both teams head to the west coast of the island to Plomari where under the cover of darkness they steal a rib from the marina and slip off shore. They make for the Turkish coast and by midday on the 20th they walk into the Embassy of the Czech Republic in Ankara, successful.
Mission complete 
NOTE: For any jobsworth Greek 5-0 or reporter this is f*cking fictitious you moronic hypochondriac ... anyway it was JdB's idea!
Posted by: D@V£ Sep 18 2012, 12:16
I don't actually know the full details of what they asked permission for, but like other folk have said, they weren't there to take pictures, they were there on holiday. It's not like the island isn't some kind of tourist attraction!
...I need to think of a suitable punishment for Carver calling the Fuzz "5-0", like some bloody yank
Posted by: JdB Sep 18 2012, 14:25
I wouldn't prefer to fly into Greece itself, rather fly to Bulgaria and then via boat insertion into Lemnos. If all else fails (and Bulgaria being close to Turkey does make it complicated) fly to Bari or Taranto on the east coast of Italy instead and travel on a commerical freighter bound for Cyprus, transfer to a smaller craft when past the Greek mainland. A much longer route but also safer because most of Greece's coast guard assetts will be focused on keeping out North African immigrants and Turkish spies in other areas.
Posted by: Daniel Sep 18 2012, 16:48
Can't we just fly to Lemnos and come up with a plan in the nearest Irish pub?
Posted by: Elliot Carver Sep 18 2012, 21:20
lol well i was running off the time frame that the two Devs would probably be moved to a central court location by the end of the week possibly on the mainland vastly complicating an extraction. So any action had to take place in the next 2 - 3 days. Given vastly more time id probably go for a co-ordinated weaponized Tesla EMP attack on strategic defensive targets across the Greek mainland. Same distraction technique but on a much larger, fun scale.
edit: Im with Dan ... http://youtu.be/KGlnATyken8 Wonder if she'll be in A3?
Posted by: JdB Sep 18 2012, 21:37
This is Greece we're talking about here, not some functioning state full of hard working people ...
Posted by: Elliot Carver Sep 18 2012, 22:11
ROFL!
I did my background research! 
Summer 2001 12 plane spotters were nicked in Greece on the same charge. The group were told they could leave prison provided they paid bail of around £9,000 each but they'd still face a lesser misdemeanor charge of illegal information collection. In the end they were found guilty and given suspended prison sentences of between 1 - 3 years. They were initially held at local police stations before being transfered within the week to a prison where they were held for 5 weeks before posting bail to go home.
I was board this morning ... does it show? 
Posted by: Old Bear Sep 19 2012, 06:43
Here some sources for the "British spies" story ... I must add that there was 2 guys from the Lowlands in the group which was probably an aggravating circumstance ... 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/november/12/newsid_2518000/2518385.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/07/greece
What is the most interesting in the case of our Czech friends is that from the start the local authorities has declared to media that they have been seized red handed in the act of trespassing a military area and making a lot of military installations in purpose. What seems to emerge is that they have been arrested by police at their hotel and the "sensible informations" gathered by the so called spy are 14 frames from a video shot on the way from airport showing military installations in the background.
@JdB : there are a lot of hard working people in Greece.
Posted by: Elliot Carver Sep 19 2012, 22:24
Two guys acting suspiciously, get stopped. A camera check revelas questionable content, they get arrested. Its a spontaneous random act of police work. For the police to arrest the Devs at the hotel they would have to have known previous to the arrest that there was questionable content on the camera and also have known where the Devs were staying. It suggests they were under surveillance.
Posted by: pMASTER Nov 16 2012, 20:22
I just heard in the news that Martin Pezlar and Ivan Buchta remain in custody. Greece prosecutors said they'd "warn anybody not to take the charges lightly", adding the duo faces 5 to 20 years in prison. It appears as though they're really afraid the Turks an unnamed enemy could use ArmA 3 to prepare for an invasion of this tiny Island in the Aegean.
Posted by: Elliot Carver Jan 15 2013, 18:47
kathimerini.gr - Dec 13th 2012
*Espionage and a video game in military camps on Lemnos*
Every day there are new episodes of the thriller of two Czechs Ivan Buchta and Martin Pezlar who were charged with espionage on Lemnos. Both men aged 28 and 33 were arrested on 9 September by police officers from the Myrina police district and have been since detained in a jail on Chios. They have been charged with espionage because they were photographing military objects on the island [of Lemnos]. Both men oppose the charge and claim that they are employees of Bohemia Interactive, the makers of a computer game ARMA 3 that takes place on Lemnos and the island Agios Efstratios.
According to information Kathimerini the move to arrest the men has begun after 3rd headquarters of counterintelligence EYP (National Intelligence Service) sent a bulletin to the local authorities, also included in the court files, notifying them in detail about the arrival of the two Czechs, where they will be staying and when they plan to leave. It also alerted them to the fact that both foreign citizens intent to photograph military objects on the island. From the point of their arrival until their arrest 6 days later both Czechs were monitored by a team from EYP. In the end they were arrested by police officers from the Myrina district who also confiscated their cameras, one notebook, external hard drives and other electronic devices. Both men claimed they went to Lemnos on holiday after spending two years of intensive work on an Internet game – [military] simulator ARMA 3. The said game takes place on Lemnos and the island Agios Efstratios and depicts a conflict between the militaries of NATO and Iran.
The court file indicates there are 14 photographs incriminating the two Czechs. “It is 7 photographs and 7 frames from a video which show military objects on the island,†told [Kathimerini] the attorney of the two men Mr. Panagiotis Eleftheriou. Even though photography of military objects without permissions is a misdemeanor, the investigator and procurator begun prosecuting the arrested men for the crime of espionage.
According to our information several days after their arrest the headquarters of EYP sent Czech intelligence service a request for detailed information about the identity and employment positions of the two arrested. Instead of a reply, the chief of Czech intelligence service visited Greece to meet his Greek counterpart Theodoros Dravillas.
According to court files of the case the arrested had special electronic devices, a fact that (according to the procurator and investigator) refutes their claim that they were to Greece on holiday. Another aggravating circumstance is said to be the fact that the owner of Bohemia Interactive, a company where both men are employed, owns shares in another company that makes computer simulations for military training. The said entrepreneur was summoned by court and deposited a witness statement in the case. Also, it seems that a proof has surfaced that both Czechs sent photographs daily to an unknown person using their computer. This information is is refuted by their attorney.
*A website*
Turns out we nailed it perfectly. Greek intelligence was on them from the moment they took off for their holiday. EYP outsmarted by arma.info
Posted by: JdB Jan 15 2013, 18:54
No need to blow our own horn, it's long been know that we regularly outperform "intelligence" agencies
Posted by: pMASTER Jan 22 2013, 18:47
Oh boy. If I were BIS I'd now announce a DLC with Turkish-themed addons...
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