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JdB
post May 8 2015, 14:55
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QUOTE(D@V @ May 8 2015, 15:00) *
[im]http://i.imgur.com/fX97Lg0.jpg[/img]


Awww how cute that they allow mentally challenged people to go on to the stage so their friends and relatives can take pictures thumbsup.gif


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D@V
post May 8 2015, 15:50
Post #4902


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QUOTE(JdB @ May 8 2015, 07:53) *
Britain chooses the sane option like most of non-leeching-off-of-bailouts-and-loans Europe. Yay conservatism! hug.gif

I really hope you're being sarcastic. mellow.gif


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pMASTER
post May 8 2015, 15:54
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QUOTE(JdB @ May 8 2015, 14:31) *
If people really felt like leaving the EU was the most important issue than they would have voted UKIP imo.
No. Citizens of representative democracies aren't nearly clever enough to vote in accordance to their beliefs.
How sick I used to be of anti-Afghanistan war protests in mine, for instance. ⅔ of all votes cast for parties who announced they would keep our troops there? Nevermind that shit! None of the feds asked us! (Only they did.)




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D@V
post May 8 2015, 16:00
Post #4904


Gee, I wish we had one of them doomsday machines.
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QUOTE(pMASTER @ May 8 2015, 15:54) *
No. Citizens of representative democracies aren't nearly clever enough to vote in accordance to their beliefs.
How sick I used to be of anti-Afghanistan war protests in mine, for instance. €š€š of all votes cast for parties who announced they would keep our troops there? Nevermind that shit! None of the feds asked us! (Only they did.)


I think you're missing the big point here, people did vote UKIP. They had the 3rd most votes of all parties. Twice as many as the SNP, who somehow took 56 times as many seats, and slightly under half as many as Labour, who took 232 times as many seats. Democracy in action!

Or, for an even better example, in Wales, without besmirching the name our beloved Plaid Cymru (blessed be our Lady Leanne Woods), UKIP had over twice as many votes as the Lib Dems, who got zero_divisor_error as many seats.

EDIT: And don't forget tactical voting. There's a good chance that a fair chunk of that Tory "majority" were UKIP supporters trying to keep Labour out.


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QUOTE(Major Mike Shearer)
We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into the area.
QUOTE(Brace Belden)
A machine gun is like a woman, I dont understand it, Im afraid of it, and one day Ill accidentally be killed by one.
 
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JdB
post May 8 2015, 16:33
Post #4905


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QUOTE(D@V @ May 8 2015, 16:50) *
I really hope you're being sarcastic. mellow.gif


Between handing out welfare in any way possible to everyone but your own people and paying for it by shooting the national debt through the roof on the one hand and giving people limited responsibility for their own wellbeing and looking at who really needs benefits, care and other social welfare on the other I prefer conservatism. Yes in the latter case the system may prove to be prone to errors as well but they are largely unintentional by-products rather than blatant attempts to buy the next electoral victory and so a continued stay on the worry-free velvet cushion.

Politically speaking I'm somewhat to the right of Andi (though he's a Christian Democrat religious zealot while I can do without the higher being myth theory) hug.gif

Many of the responsible Northern and Western European countries have had conservative governments re-elected over the last few years or have elected them into office. So many people can't be wrong! wub.gif

And with my posts over the years it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that I am fairly right of centre tongue.gif

This post has been edited by JdB: May 8 2015, 16:36


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D@V
post May 8 2015, 16:49
Post #4906


Gee, I wish we had one of them doomsday machines.
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QUOTE(JdB @ May 8 2015, 16:33) *
Politically speaking I'm somewhat to the right of Andi (though he's a Christian Democrat religious zealot while I can do without the higher being myth theory) hug.gif

Many of the responsible Northern and Western European countries have had conservative governments re-elected over the last few years or have elected them into office. So many people can't be wrong! wub.gif


Erm... so you're saying you were being sarcastic? unsure.gif


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QUOTE(Major Mike Shearer)
We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into the area.
QUOTE(Brace Belden)
A machine gun is like a woman, I dont understand it, Im afraid of it, and one day Ill accidentally be killed by one.
 
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JdB
post May 8 2015, 17:46
Post #4907


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QUOTE(D@V @ May 8 2015, 17:49) *
Erm... so you're saying you were being sarcastic? unsure.gif


I was being as sarcastic as the voters in the UK were when they elected a party whose best known figure head is Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson weapons_owned.gif

This post has been edited by JdB: May 8 2015, 17:46


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D@V
post May 8 2015, 18:39
Post #4908


Gee, I wish we had one of them doomsday machines.
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QUOTE(JdB @ May 8 2015, 17:46) *
I was being as sarcastic as the voters in the UK were when they elected a party whose best known figure head is Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson weapons_owned.gif

Oh. Ok. In that case...

QUOTE(JdB @ May 8 2015, 16:33) *
Between handing out welfare in any way possible to everyone but your own people and paying for it by shooting the national debt through the roof on the one hand and giving people limited responsibility for their own wellbeing and looking at who really needs benefits, care and other social welfare on the other I prefer conservatism. Yes in the latter case the system may prove to be prone to errors as well but they are largely unintentional by-products rather than blatant attempts to buy the next electoral victory and so a continued stay on the worry-free velvet cushion.

If you were talking about UKIP, maybe you'd have a point (admittedly, it'd be a terrible point, and you'd be wrong for believing it, but I digress). But we're talking about the god damn Tories. In the past five years George Osbourne has actually increased the UK's debt by more than every labour government ever.


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QUOTE(Major Mike Shearer)
We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into the area.
QUOTE(Brace Belden)
A machine gun is like a woman, I dont understand it, Im afraid of it, and one day Ill accidentally be killed by one.
 
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pMASTER
post May 8 2015, 18:47
Post #4909


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@Dave: But that's precisely my point. If Brexit is your biggest issue, why not vote UKIP? And if you didn't vote UKIP, why be surprised if you can't have things your way?


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D@V
post May 8 2015, 19:11
Post #4910


Gee, I wish we had one of them doomsday machines.
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QUOTE(pMASTER @ May 8 2015, 18:47) *
@Dave: But that's precisely my point. If Brexit is your biggest issue, why not vote UKIP? And if you didn't vote UKIP, why be surprised if you can't have things your way?

Can I just say... Brexit sounds like the name of some fancy dog food. Like, the multicoloured ones that ensure a luscious coat. tongue.gif Also, I thought it would be pretty obvious at this point that I support Plaid Cymru, not UKIP.

People might not vote UKIP in marginal constituencies, since, while they'd prefer a UKIP MP, they'd rather have a Tory over Labour. For example, in Gower, the conservatives only just beat Labour. If TUSC hadn't come along and said "hold up, they're not real socialists, vote for us instead", the seat would probably have been taken by Labour, instead. Since Labour have said they won't have a referendum on Europe, but the Tories have said they might have a referendum on Europe, it's make sense for a smart UKIP voter to vote for the Tories instead of his own party, since UKIP basically has no chance of taking this seat from Labour, and it's their best bet of "Brexit". (I think there might be a Brexit near Kent...)


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QUOTE(Major Mike Shearer)
We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into the area.
QUOTE(Brace Belden)
A machine gun is like a woman, I dont understand it, Im afraid of it, and one day Ill accidentally be killed by one.
 
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pMASTER
post May 9 2015, 02:01
Post #4911


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QUOTE(D@V @ May 8 2015, 20:11) *
Also, I thought it would be pretty obvious at this point that I support Plaid Cymru, not UKIP.
I know. Admittedly my usage of the generic you was misleading.
QUOTE(D@V @ May 8 2015, 20:11) *
People might not vote UKIP in marginal constituencies, since, while they'd prefer a UKIP MP, they'd rather have a Tory over Labour. For example, in Gower, the conservatives only just beat Labour. If TUSC hadn't come along and said "hold up, they're not real socialists, vote for us instead", the seat would probably have been taken by Labour, instead. Since Labour have said they won't have a referendum on Europe, but the Tories have said they might have a referendum on Europe, it's make sense for a smart UKIP voter to vote for the Tories instead of his own party, since UKIP basically has no chance of taking this seat from Labour, and it's their best bet of "Brexit". (I think there might be a Brexit near Kent...)
I know that as well. But see, what's the British press's/ returning officer's take on floating voters who went for a Tory instead? By your words they must be legion. I daresay those Britons who favour an exit could've made one more likely even under your weird-ass electoral system had they all voted UKIP unanimously. Yet still they'd whinge heavily if over the next five years Cameron's might somehow changed into a rather not for undisclosed reasons, or the Tories did anything else they don't agree with.

Just like my previously cited Germans --- who cast votes for pro-war parties (often over tactical reasons, too) yet were caught unawares when the war continued, and did a great deal of bitching as though they had never voted for those people. I'm sure you can think of more examples for your country as well. And all this usually leads to the very same phenomenon: a huge crowd of fools lamenting the dictatorship their country has become since no one heeds their will (only it was heeded) pulls of acts of idiocy like forming a party such as UKIP. Who in turn are precisely like all other parties and --- precisely as all other parties --- try to attract votes by presenting themselves as different from all other parties.

That's why I'm against direct democracy. If they can't get their priorities straight under a system that does lots of the thinking for them, why should they perform better under a system that demands even more selfresponsibility and -reliance.


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D@V
post May 9 2015, 12:27
Post #4912


Gee, I wish we had one of them doomsday machines.
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QUOTE(pMASTER @ May 9 2015, 02:01) *
I know that as well. But see, what's the British press's/ returning officer's take on floating voters who went for a Tory instead? By your words they must be legion. I daresay those Britons who favour an exit could've made one more likely even under your weird-ass electoral system had they all voted UKIP unanimously. Yet still they'd whinge heavily if over the next five years Cameron's might somehow changed into a rather not for undisclosed reasons, or the Tories did anything else they don't agree with.

That's exactly right. There's an ingrained voting culture, thanks to our electoral system, that if you don't vote for the incumbent or the opposition, you're wasting your vote. And, annoyingly enough, it's actually completely true. For the extreme version of this, look at the US. Pretty much one party away from a one party state tongue.gif

As for the press, pretty much the same as usual: The left wing's take on it is "FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-" while the right wing's take is "Election? You queer or something, mate? Turn to page 3 for SLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGS!".

EDIT: By the way, whenever the issue of apathy comes up, folk keep saying that "people died for our right to vote"... did they, though? I mean, maybe in France or Germany, but, here... I think the suffragettes got sneered at slightly? Doesn't really have the same ring to it "Some women were sneered at for your right to vote" unsure.gif


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QUOTE(Major Mike Shearer)
We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into the area.
QUOTE(Brace Belden)
A machine gun is like a woman, I dont understand it, Im afraid of it, and one day Ill accidentally be killed by one.
 
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Blackbuck
post May 9 2015, 16:34
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QUOTE(JdB @ May 8 2015, 13:31) *
If people really felt like leaving the EU was the most important issue than they would have voted UKIP imo.


To add to what was said by others, my opinion - Because they apathy and ignorance of the electorate here usually allows the loud minority to get its way over the silent majority?


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JdB
post May 9 2015, 16:40
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QUOTE(D@V @ May 9 2015, 13:27) *
EDIT: By the way, whenever the issue of apathy comes up, folk keep saying that "people died for our right to vote"... did they, though? I mean, maybe in France or Germany, but, here... I think the suffragettes got sneered at slightly? Doesn't really have the same ring to it "Some women were sneered at for your right to vote" unsure.gif


The only person that knowingly died for the right to vote was Emily Davidson who ran in front of the King's horse because even an uneducated woman can more or less work out that have a living object more than 5 times your weight slam into you at speed is not beneficial to your health. The general held theory these days is that she tried to attach some sort of ribbon to the horse. I'm not sure what is less damaging to the way people think of women: That running into a horse race where the view of the jockey is obstructed puts you in lethal danger or that attaching a ribbon to a horse going flat out is actually possible without attaching the ribbon to a speer and stabbing the horse ... tiredsmiley.gif


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D@V
post May 9 2015, 17:03
Post #4915


Gee, I wish we had one of them doomsday machines.
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QUOTE(JdB @ May 9 2015, 16:40) *
The only person that knowingly died for the right to vote was Emily Davidson who ran in front of the King's horse because even an uneducated woman can more or less work out that have a living object more than 5 times your weight slam into you at speed is not beneficial to your health. The general held theory these days is that she tried to attach some sort of ribbon to the horse. I'm not sure what is less damaging to the way people think of women: That running into a horse race where the view of the jockey is obstructed puts you in lethal danger or that attaching a ribbon to a horse going flat out is actually possible without attaching the ribbon to a speer and stabbing the horse ... tiredsmiley.gif

I always knew horses were up to no good! And don't even get me started on ponies...


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QUOTE(Major Mike Shearer)
We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into the area.
QUOTE(Brace Belden)
A machine gun is like a woman, I dont understand it, Im afraid of it, and one day Ill accidentally be killed by one.
 
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pMASTER
post May 9 2015, 21:58
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In other news, a F3/F4 tornado with 300+ kp/h winds fully hit a Northern German town two days ago, laying a path of destruction over 13 kilometers in length. 30 people were injured and 30 million in property damages incurred (not including damages registered beyond the town's borders). Yet all structural damages were mostly superficial (roofs, windows etc.) and most people injured were motorists or had stood close to windows when flying debris hit them. Only two historical buildings were damaged in a way that could've endangered anyone seeking shelter inside. I don't understand why Americans who live in Tornado-ridden areas don't build themselves stone houses, or how they can spend but one peaceful summer in a home with cardboard-thin walls. It seems unwise to risk so much for so small an advantage like future mobility and reduced construction prices.


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JdB
post May 9 2015, 22:10
Post #4917


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QUOTE(pMASTER @ May 9 2015, 22:58) *
I don't understand why Americans who live in Tornado-ridden areas don't build themselves stone houses, or how they can spend but one peaceful summer in a home with cardboard-thin walls. It seems unwise to risk so much for so small an advantage like future mobility and reduced construction prices.


You know like when if we build them thar houses out of stone then we won't be able to get going when we wants to and so the gooberment will know where we lives when the black helicopters come to take ar guuuuuhns 'n enslave us all (no tabacco chewing inbred redneck smiley cry3.gif )


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D@V
post May 10 2015, 00:29
Post #4918


Gee, I wish we had one of them doomsday machines.
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QUOTE(JdB @ May 9 2015, 22:10) *
You know like when if we build them thar houses out of stone then we won't be able to get going when we wants to and so the gooberment will know where we lives when the black helicopters come to take ar guuuuuhns 'n enslave us all (no tabacco chewing inbred redneck smiley cry3.gif )


Not muh guhns! How will I protect muhself and muh beloved wife and sister from Oh-bah-muh-care!?

(Yes, the Wife and Sister are the same person, John, that's the joke)


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QUOTE(Major Mike Shearer)
We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into the area.
QUOTE(Brace Belden)
A machine gun is like a woman, I dont understand it, Im afraid of it, and one day Ill accidentally be killed by one.
 
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Blackbuck
post May 10 2015, 13:12
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AFAIK US building regs deem the wooden shite that they build safer than brick-built buildings. I remember seeing it somewhere when they were dealing with hurricane/tornado and earthquake proof buildings.


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D@V
post May 10 2015, 17:21
Post #4920


Gee, I wish we had one of them doomsday machines.
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Andi, what is your countrymen and using the most horrendous image hosts? I used to think imageshack was goddamn awful, but jeez, compared to that Bild thing that every German in the world apparently uses...


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QUOTE(Major Mike Shearer)
We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into the area.
QUOTE(Brace Belden)
A machine gun is like a woman, I dont understand it, Im afraid of it, and one day Ill accidentally be killed by one.
 
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