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> BIS developers arrested for alleged espionage in Greece, Ivan Buchta and Martin Pezlar taken into custody
pMASTER
post Sep 11 2012, 19:34
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QUOTE
Bohemia Interactive devs arrested for “spying”

Greek news sites are reporting that two Czechs have been arrested on Lemnos, after taking photographs and video of military installations. The two claim to be developers working for Bohemia Interactive, out gathering reference material for Arma 3, which takes place on the Greek island. This hasn’t yet washed with the Greek authorities who’ve slapped them with espionage charges.

The story has been confirmed by Marek Spanel, CEO and co-founder of Bohemia Interactive, who elected not to discuss the matter any further on the official Bohemia Interactive forums, “at least until we know more specific details about the case.”
rofl.gif Awesome!


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JdB
post Sep 11 2012, 21:48
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You'd almost think that the Greek government is cooperating with BIS to create as much publicity as possible for ArmA3. Would be about time those lazy gits started earning their bailouts tiredsmiley.gif

Anyways: Initiate the totally unrelated Operation Prison Bailout! ph34r.gif


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Blackbuck
post Sep 11 2012, 22:01
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If only they could work this somehow into the campaign...


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Elliot Carver
post Sep 11 2012, 22:06
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You talking about Greece or BIS with that bailout? We all bought A2 lol

Must be a hard choice for Spanel now ... deciding between paying bail or making a profit on A3 blues.gif


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Blackscorpion
post Sep 11 2012, 22:08
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Oh, c'mon... just run to the Hind and fly to safety! Or steal the BMP...


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JdB
post Sep 12 2012, 00:08
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QUOTE(Elliot Carver @ Sep 11 2012, 23:06) *
BIS


If they had worked on improving CQB some time in the last 10 years, they might have known how to avoid being arrested in the first place blues.gif


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Elliot Carver
post Sep 12 2012, 01:08
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This is where we wake up tomorrow to find the Czech Republic has invaded Greece happy.gif


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fX8
post Sep 12 2012, 12:36
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Well this is funny and sad at the same time xD


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Elliot Carver
post Sep 13 2012, 10:40
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Dont know if you guys are following this but BIS said yesterday (i think) that the two were on holiday lol. Way to go hand the case to the Greeks. Its pretty obvious they were taking pictures and video of the base and stuff inside and the cameras will be full of it for content for A3. They even admitted it in posts on the BIForums (carried by some news networks) before closing threads down and issuing a statement. They've had run-ins before with the Greeks over this and last time they were told to seek the proper authority so this time i expect they'll get the book thrown at them.

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Elliot Carver
post Sep 13 2012, 10:40
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QUOTE
http://www.radio.cz/en/news
Czech nationals arrested in Greece await decision by state prosecutor

Two Czech nationals arrested on spying charges on the island of Limnos in Greece could potentially face up to 20 years in prison – if their case were to go to trial and the two were found guilty. The head of the Czech consulate in Athens Blanka Kovacsová outlined the situation on Wednesday in an interview for the Czech news agency. The state prosecutor overseeing the case has not yet decided whether the two men, aged 28 and 33, will be remanded in custody or be allowed to post bail. The duo’s public defender has requested an expanded investigation that would see witnesses be called to give depositions. The two Czechs have said in their defence that they were only researching material for a computer game; they were caught recording footage of a Greek military base as well as a local airport.


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JdB
post Sep 13 2012, 14:08
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For a people so obsessed with their supposed mortal enemies the Turks they sure have lousy security if vital military installations can be observed from public areas without overwatch positions being off-limits. We have all our bases surrounded by forrests with fences, guards with dogs and other security measures tiredsmiley.gif

The Greeks must be able to do that, as their defence budget seems limitless (no surprise really as they can invest the entire pension of all Northern Europeans glare.gif )


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Elliot Carver
post Sep 13 2012, 16:09
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Well when your country looks like a noobs first venture into Visitor your alright tongue.gif

Greece has a history of nicking people outside its bases for photography but then again so does the uk and most other countries. Just the Greeks are crap at keeping it from the media. I was sat outside Boscombe Down a few years ago which has a strict no photography rule being the uk's R&D testing site. Been sat there for a few hours enjoying the Jags rocking over when a dude turns up in a clapped out Ford Escort. About 10 mins in he climbs into the back seat and pops open the boot so he can take pictures of the aircraft on finals. It was just the two of us down there so i drove off and moved the car to a vantage point further up the hill. It wasn't long before two black landrover defenders shot past and mod plod jumped the guy, had his camera off him and sent him off. They stopped by me on the way back up and we had a laugh about how much of a dick he was but they asked me to move on too. He said i spend way to much time down there as my numberplate had been logged there 26 times mellow.gif i thought he was taking this piss till i added it up lol

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JdB
post Sep 13 2012, 16:46
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QUOTE(Elliot Carver @ Sep 13 2012, 17:09) *
Well when your country looks like a noobs first venture into Visitor your alright tongue.gif


That's why I mentioned keeping overwatch positions off-limits. When you situate your base in a valley, you make sure you control all of the high ground surrounding it as well. Otherwise you might as well post all of your secrets on Wikipedia (though it would likely be removed anyway for not providing sufficient sources biggrin.gif ).

This post has been edited by JdB: Sep 13 2012, 16:47


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Elliot Carver
post Sep 15 2012, 03:07
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So ive done a bit of digging and come across a Greek fan boy A3 site - http://www.arma3.gr/ Google Translate makes it about readable and about 3 news posts in they carry an article which is ... libelous at best. It goes into some detail about the two Devs who got picked up and BIS's activities on Lemnos over the past few years etc. I'll quote the final part of the article as it speaks for itself and perhaps the Greek side of the whole fiasco.

QUOTE
Beyond that, however, the company itself raises questions about the use of the material recorded by specialists ... On its website, the ex-owner and director of plays Ivan Buchta avoids explaining why it was chosen to Lemnos as environment " Arma 3 ». Stresses, however, even somewhat vaguely that "tried to catch as much as possible to reality, although for various reasons can not be an exact copy of Lemnos."

The director admits that, before embarking on missions in Lemnos, preparations were kept for several weeks in a similar area outside Brno, Czech Republic. During the lesson, the experts had to daily "partner" in Google Earth, studying maps, chose carefully the points to be photographed or videotape and recorded their daily itineraries, without explaining whether their interest was directed to the movements of military vehicles or to ... bus routes! Many details about a computer game, is not it?

But more worrying is elsewhere ... the revelation of Ivan Buchta that the transfer of the real environment of Lemnos on computer screens, it is only one part of the development of the game, but "a whole development" means "growth. The very long story ... ". He concludes:

"Our effort is directly related to the requirements, military clients, needing display 1:1 (life-size) of the operative field!"

Who are these "military customers" and why have "requirements" of a game production company, does not explain the Czech director. However, if you consider that «Bohemia Interactive» available to every detail about weapons, missiles, helicopters and everything else is the latest technology of NATO, easily understands that given the rich material.

Does all of these were for nothing? Or does the "return" is the assignment of the optical material, and if so, will be entitled to use all the NATO countries, including those who do not want ...?


They make a fair point. Greeks don't want the Turks buying VBS with their back door to the Aegean sea perfectly mapped to train on. Turkey has in the past disputed claims to Lemnos Island hence why Greece stuck a phat runway on it and enough infrastructure for 10,000 troops.

drunk.gif

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pMASTER
post Sep 15 2012, 06:33
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Did I get that straight? The Greeks fear BIS could prelude a Greek invasion of Lemnos?


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Elliot Carver
post Sep 15 2012, 10:03
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Well an unspecified 'military customer' who "will be entitled to use [Lemnos content] all the NATO countries, including those who do not want ...?". Sorry the translation is pants but the best i could get out of google. Yeah basically the article - originally sourced from a prominent Greek news broadcaster - says that its worried BISs VBS training sim could be bought by Greeks enemies, including NATO members, (Turkey) and used to propagate an attack, be it military or terrorist, on Greek soil.

From the Greek point of view the two Devs were nicked taking pics of military bases and hardware, without permission, with an eye to sell it to people Greece doesn't like and this is the second time they've been caught. The espionage charge is quite legitimate when you break it down like this. I doubt the Devs will get 20 years in the clink but i bet Greece makes a big fuss over handing these guys back.

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JdB
post Sep 15 2012, 14:23
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VBS has never included ArmA (/OFP) islands just like ArmA (/OFP) has never included VBS islands. I´m not even sure whether it´s even allowed under the VBS license, VBS comes with it´s own terrains specifically designed for military purposes (that doesn´t even mean true-to-life terrain, but rather terrain suited for running the very specific simulations that those customers want regardless of resemblance to real world locations). Capture The Island is not something VBS customers use the application for. Squad to platoon level communication and procedures like clearing IEDs are what VBS is for, not complete simulations of an island invasion.


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D@V£
post Sep 15 2012, 18:40
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QUOTE(JdB @ Sep 15 2012, 14:23) *
VBS has never included ArmA (/OFP) islands just like ArmA (/OFP) has never included VBS islands. I´m not even sure whether it´s even allowed under the VBS license, VBS comes with it´s own terrains specifically designed for military purposes (that doesn´t even mean true-to-life terrain, but rather terrain suited for running the very specific simulations that those customers want regardless of resemblance to real world locations). Capture The Island is not something VBS customers use the application for. Squad to platoon level communication and procedures like clearing IEDs are what VBS is for, not complete simulations of an island invasion.

Whether it's "allowed" won't stop larger organizations. There's legal precedent in the EU that basically makes EULAs worthless. And don't forget, just because VBS isn't intended for large scale simulations doesn't mean it isn't capable of them.

(Though, it's not like Turkey are actually planning to invade Greek territory. The way things are going, it'll cheaper for them to just buy the islands! tongue.gif )


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JdB
post Sep 15 2012, 19:11
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QUOTE(D@V£ @ Sep 15 2012, 19:40) *
Whether it's "allowed" won't stop larger organizations.


Then that larger organisation will simply send professional spies to the island, use it's sattelites or place a sub or UAV close to the island, and obtain a far more accurate representation of the island than BIS ever will. The island isn't even going to be full scale nor accurate since it's customized to fit BIS's gameplay needs.

"Yeah ... sorry General, our airstrike in Operation Pearl Harbor 2 sort of failed because BIS made the island on a 2:3 scale and we didn't take the difference into account. We hope your HQ wasn't too badly damaged.

Oopsy,
Achmed, Commander Simulation Division of the Armed Forces of Turkey"

If you are going to use a real world location for running simulations on how to best invade it, it needs to be true to life, not somewhat-with-quite-a-bit-of-imagination-if-you-try-real-hard. I wouldn't try to invade the islands that inspired the original OFP islands after running 10 years worth of simulations on those either.


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Elliot Carver
post Sep 17 2012, 11:35
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Its good to get some fresh news on the situation out there (posted on .info news site) but i have a question. If they "took photographs and videos in public areas, as countless tourists arriving to enjoy the beauty and hospitality of Greece may well do." why were they singled out to be arrested? For local coppers to arrest two random tourists and charge them with the capital offense of espionage they must have done something to warrant the charge? A simple google search brings up plenty of snaps of Lemnos airport? Im not questioning BISs statement, im questioning the Greek authorities decision to press charges and the reasoning behind it.


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