Discussion about selling addons, NOT for advertising Options

[Daniel Von Rommel]

He can bring it on if he wants

[sgt.Artmann]

I agree with Placebo i some parts...

one is this: if you have the Bis' s tools you can not sell your addons , you use the tools of Bis not yours,
and if you create a addon with them the addon is not of Bis but you can not sell it.

another point is this:
if you use parts of other games you have no permission to sell them thet are not yours!
and in my opinion using cod4 or others game addon is simply a dimostraction of your bad talent

sorry for my bad english

[Deadeye]

But you have to use the BI tools if you want the model to be fully functional in ArmA (animations,sections.... pbo), correct? And by using these tools you agree to the EULA No one would pay for the model only.

@Daniel Von Rommel : please watch your words, this thread is meant for a serious discussion. Everybody can express his opinion but only in a civilized way !

[BigglesTrevor]

In my opinion, you're a disgrace to every single user of this forum and of every single member of the whole ArmA community.

Go away and never come back.


Seriously, I don't even see the point in being civil with a such "person" as you, but go read the BIS EULA and the forum's rules.

100% Agreed with Placebo

How have i disgraced the community? I really dont understand, im not advicating theft, all im saying is if you make your own models using the supplied BIS tools allowing people to sell what they have produced if they so wish too isnt all such a bad idea. It has done wonders for other games and that is undeniable. Stop trying to start a flame war, i really dont understand why this view is percieved as so inherantly "evil". Its not exactly stealing from BIS as there not about to release additional content for Arma in terms of addons, and if people start stealing other peoples models and trying to sell them the chances are there already available as a free addon from the original maker.

To call me a disgrace to the whole ArmA community, i really fail to see how. How in any way am i damaging the community. Like D@ve says, if you have a real quality addon maker relaseing stuff there not going to be charging stupid prices, simply because people wont pay it. What you will end up with is completely honest sites like this http://www.aero-files.com/Products/Products.html dedicated to ArmA. I dont know about anyone else but i would be more than willing to pay for genuine (ie. produced and sold by same person/company, using BIS tools with permission) quality addons for ArmA. The end effect if enough money is in the game is completely third party development teams acctualy cooperating with the game development team to improve compatability and the sort, somthing which actually happened between the Ultimate Terrain Team and the Aces Development Team at Microsoft.

So how about you formulate your own opinion Rommel and stop jumping on the JdB band waggon accusing me of saying "i dont care where addons come from i just want to play them" whilst not reading my posts. And just for the record writing everything it Italics dosnt make you more sophisticated unless you have the actual grace and ability of coherant arguament of somone like Elliot Carver.

[Daniel Von Rommel]

Who was talking to you?

I am talking to "Ivan" or however he's called

P.S.
Even though I disagree with you on all the line I wouldn't have talked to you that way, I.

[BigglesTrevor]

quality. i take everything back then sorry. I sure feel like an idiot right about now. I have to say your post wasnt entirly clear, i thought it was a responce to my post.

[Daniel Von Rommel]

Well sorry if it wasn't clear

If you thought I was talking to you then you're excused

End of OT

[BigglesTrevor]

aye, i apologise, to my defence i think deadeye may have thought the same thing. Ofcourse you can see my respnce to you was fairly harsh, but i was thinking i had just be seriosuly assaulted by you so....

anyway to follow up, its not just Microsoft Flight Simulator which has took this sort of policy, look at Gary's Mod and the Fell Bleu(?) expansion for Il2. I think Garys mod has to pay some sort of royalties but you get the idea.

[Daniel Von Rommel]

The question we must ask ourselves is: What we bought ArmA for?

Personally, I bought it for the mods, if all major mods (Zombie mods, XAM, SLX full, ECS, RHS', CWR, etc.) were "pay to use" I wouldn't have bought the game in the first place, and if I already had, I would try to sell it to a friend.

Now, assuming others bought the game for the mods, how isn't that a damage to the community?

Of course, if one or two modders make a pay pack now and then it isn't a problem, but what if it becomes an habit?

[Blackbuck]

In my opinion, you're a disgrace to every single user of this forum and of every single member of the whole ArmA community.

Go away and never come back.


Seriously, I don't even see the point in being civil with a such "person" as you, but go read the BIS EULA and the forum's rules.

100% Agreed with Placebo

Is that point directed at bdfy or D@nte?

As for why we bought ArmA. I bought it thinking it to be a worthy sequel to OFP. Which is debatable but not in this thread...

[Daniel Von Rommel]

It's directed at Bdfy and at "pay to play" modders in general...

[Blackbuck]

Okay. Just the way I read the last page

[D@V£]

Personally, I bought it for the mods, if all major mods (Zombie mods, XAM, SLX full, ECS, RHS', CWR, etc.) were "pay to use" I wouldn't have bought the game in the first place, and if I already had, I would try to sell it to a friend.

We're not talking massive amounts here. Honestly, I'd consider some of those additions for FSX overpriced. I'm just saying that if someone creates something then they should have the right to charge a small sum for it. 5p or thereabouts is hardly something most people can't afford. In fact, it's the sort of money that a lot of people don't even bother about (seriously, you could probably find over three times that amount discarded in most vending machines). And, like I've already said, it wouldn't be a small amount to the author, because these amounts add up. (almost every addon on the database, save the most recent additions, has been downloaded around 500 times)

(I don't deny that a cap on the amount that can be charged ($5 or thereabouts) would be something worth considering.)

It might also get a few people out there (no names mentioned, you know who you are) some concept of intellectual property rights if they have to put up with people stealing their own work.

Of course, I can understand why the freeloaders here might find the concept of having to do something in return for the long hours modders have put into creating something a massive offence to them, comparable to murdering their parents and feeding them to hungry pigs... well... I don't think I really need to expand on that really.

[pMASTER]

Of course, I can understand why the freeloaders here might find the concept of having to do something in return for the long hours modders have put into creating something a massive offence to them, comparable to murdering their parents and feeding them to hungry pigs... well... I don't think I really need to expand on that really.

Do you really think that this is the issue here?

I could use a pirated copy of ArmA or OFP, too, but I have bought a real one to compensate the developers for their work. It's their intellectual property. I'm not pointing with fingers towards people I know who use pirated copies. But they don't abuse BIS intellectual property to make money with it. If they're saying that a commercial use of their stuff is not ok, well then it is not ok. To infract an contract you've agreed on in the first place only to financially benefit from that is not ok with me.
Furthermore do some addon creators write in their readmes that their work is not for commercial use, too.

[D@V£]

Do you really think that this is the issue here?

I could use a pirated copy of ArmA or OFP, too, but I have bought a real one to compensate the developers for their work. It's their intellectual property. I'm not pointing with fingers towards people I know who use pirated copies. But they don't abuse BIS intellectual property to make money with it. If they're saying that a commercial use of their stuff is not ok, well then it is not ok. To infract an contract you've agreed on in the first place only to financially benefit from that is not ok with me.
Furthermore do some addon creators write in their readmes that their work is not for commercial use, too.

I see where you're coming from, but you misunderstand. My arguement is that BIS should amend their EULA for ArmA2 to allow modders to sell their addons.
Truth be told, I can change the fact that It's breaking the EULA about as much as I change the weather.

I can't condone what bdfy has supposedly done. And I'm not trying to. I'm just saying that BIS should consider that perhaps some commercialisation would be a good thing.

[BigglesTrevor]

indeed thats my general view, but stealing other peoples work and attempting to sell it on simply isnt acceptable.

[Daniel Von Rommel]

I'm just saying that BIS should consider that perhaps some commercialisation would be a good thing.

Call me an emo but I feel extremely sad when I hear stuff like that.

Ever heard about concepts like sharing and community? Seems not.

Modders DO NOT make mods to get a reward, they do it because it's their hobby.


What you suggest (the 5p thing) would totally destroy the community and turn it into a bunch of wannabe-businessmen struggling to catch the few players who would surrender to "commercialization"(Which I expect will be less than 100, not counting the modders themselves), or give birth to an illegal addons database (You know what I'm talking about)

Edit= Even though I doubt any serious modder could ever think about anything like this, but I'm kind of "ideologically" talking.

[pMASTER]

Indeed you are. I don't see any problems arising by his proposal, only under the present circumstances I reject the idea of selling addons. BIS could grant a permission to the best modders for example, and would thereby bring the level of the modding community further because that would be a real sweetener to give it one's all in my humble opinion.

As long as the prices remain reasonable, I don't see a reason why the proposal should affect the community much. That's called supply-and-demand. Addons the community doesn't like don't receive recognition either, whilst the better modders are admired by many.

[Daniel Von Rommel]

You understand this goes against every concept of common effort, sharing, community and the utpistic idea of free internet, do you?

Edit= I guess times are really changed, I'm astonished so many people, who would also be considered as "pillars" of the community, approve such a crazy idea(from the point of view of nostalgic people like me).

[Benoist]

Yes, but people like me (underage) won't be able to use them, only if someone toss it.