Discussion about selling addons, NOT for advertising Options

[Placebo]

>>Edit by JdB: Added poll<<

i don't want to mess with hypocrites there (from mods and usual users), i asked to delete entirely that topic (as we authors never gave permission to start it there), though looks like mods there do not have enough respect to author's work to grant this little wish

Ironic for you to call people hypocrites, when you're the biggest hypocrite around, you try to act like you're some wounded party, yet you're desperately trying to find ways to make personal profit from the community, despite being told by me that you don't have permission from BIS to sell any addons that you make using any of BIS released tools, as well as the fact I've seen proof that you tried to sell addons that you ripped from other games (specifically COD4).

You sent repeated Emails to me to try to find ways to make addons to sell to people in the community. Repeatedly I told you that was not acceptable to BIS.
You still created your website advertising that you will sell addons to people, despite not having permission.
You offered people addons that you planned (or already) have stolen and ripped from other games such as COD4 which you wanted to sell, which you certainly have no legal right to 1. convert 2. sell.

"People" like you are a cancer on the community and the longer you're around the worse off the community will be.

If you had any kind of good intention to be a permanent and productive part of the community you would have removed your addon selling website, but you haven't done that have you?

Our prices are reasonable,but we can't set exact ones cause it depends on model/addon difficulty. Just remember that everything is possible - it's just matter of time and efforts If you are interested and want to discuss the details - contact us

I see you have a link to the Bohemia Interactive forums on your website, please remove it immediately, we don't want the likes of you linking to us.

This post has been edited by JdB: Jul 16 2008, 19:40

Reason for edit: Added poll

[bdfy]

make a new thread to discuss it then

Allowing to create one topic just to ban it for different reason i call hypocrasy. perversion and deleting half of my words i call hypocrisy. banning different people with only suspicion to be clone i call hypocracy. there's no addon _selling_ website. And AFAIK there're no facts of anything selled to anyone in this community. You're messing around with nothing misrepresented facts and false attitudes. Want to blacken my name - as i said it's part of your job, i see nothing personal in it. i have little wish to speak with you until you change your altitude. i know you paid to act like that - but if you wish just start a new topic maybe we can get more open discussion here then at of. forums
atm i see your post as flaming and ask mods to move this part of discussion.

edited:
Just to satisfy everyone curiosity and lower flaming a bit i'll try to answer most frequent questions. it was supposed to be discussed in private for a bit longer, but some people just can't stick to their words

Who created 'armaaddons' site/youtube blog ?

me. though not all the duplicate accounts banned at of. forums are mine
yes, it's forbidden to link it here

What for ?

To provide paid assistance to anyone interested in arma content creation (i.e usual arma gamers that can only post at addon request threads). including making/porting any model customer wish. It has nothing to do with other projects i ever participated, incl MiG. No matter what placebo is trying to say - it's still _fair_ service with no fraud or stealing. It was initially started as half test half joke (i guess i'd forget about long ago if it wasn't such a big scandal), but looks like i can't throw it away that easily now.
Do you know what evidance of 'stealing' PLacebo was talking about ? Cause it looks like he did a great job to tracking source etc, He just saw youtube video of ch46, with clearly written info where it comes from. Yeh, maybe it's my mistake to be honest with people, cause i really doubt anyone can identify model on such blurred video

But it's illegal ! It's breaking o2 EULA!!

a. AFAIK i'm not breaking my local laws. b. EULA infringes upon my constitution rights to work.
plus o2 can only be used to convert content in game - nobody in sane mind will use this 'tool' to create content.
Anyway i'm just not a lawyer to discuss it. I heard from different people that service content can be shaped to look legal (like models for money - converting in game for free), but... Whom are we trying to fool ?

Everyone is working for free, why anyone will want to buy smth ? It's disgrace to the community!!

Moraly it's ok for me to try to earn money from smth you spent years stydying/working for free. Yes, i have another job like most of you to earn for my living.and for me (and not only me) its impossible to keep wasting hours of free time on this game for free. This game just do not worth it. Rapidly decreasing amount of people modding (and releasing) smth for arma only proves it.
OFP was a great game, and it was modders who made its so popular. just pick up usual arma revue
For the patient, the willing and the people who know exactly what Flashpoint and its fans are capable of: go buy ArmA.
In exchange we got crappy cutted tools in a year (?) after release. with very low support and documantation provided. examples to work on come in one more year. It may look like i think bis owe smth to commuity and have to support it ? - No, but together arma overall quality (i wonder if there're beta testers in bis at all ?) it just shows the attitude.

Why not stick to donations etc ?

Yes, there was a poll at of. forums. about 15% percents voted for it. but you know, Webmoney wallet was added to MiG readme (just to check the idea), but it's senseless, there won't even penny. plus one arma editing site admins were brave enough to edit the readme and remove donate info. I don't want to discuss reasons, but it only proves that direct selling is the only way for authors to get any revenue. As i said before - There's no site selling addons atm, but don't be very surprised if it will be created someday.

Got further questions ? You're free to ask. just keep it civil - i'm sick of of forums style

Reason for edit: Removing hints on where to contact EULA breakers

[pMASTER]

I'd like to see a link to the website Placebo was writing about.

[Rewan]

I had it, since he posted on the ArmA-fr website but it got removed quickly.

Oh and there was 2 videos with stuff (CH53 from CoD4 and OH58 (If I remember)). Noticed that the user who posted these videos was Russian.

[dg]

Imports from other games are illegal
He could pay up to 40000$'s if he get caught.
Why the moderators dont just ban him? (Best: IP Ban)


I got a proof that he got the Sell site you're talking about

Bdfy is a very unique name, so he have to be that guy

http://forum.cmsmadesimple.org/index.php?t...=18511.msg99840

He's asking how to include it to "Webmoney"; a seller format.
Thats evidence enough in my eyes

[bdfy]

once again - all the people that likes conspiracy theories can go to hell (i.e another topic). until we get permission from mods to discuss this issue openly - i consider all this offtopic

[Blackbuck]

Although that could be seen that way I think that it's argumentative. He COULD have a legitimate project however unlikely or whatever.

[Wass]

Bdfy is a very unique name

LoL.
"Bdfy" - means "Ivan" whan you type it by russian letter, but not switch your keyboard in russian.
So, its absolutly not unique name )

[dg]

I can go to hell?
No, you can go to hell!

[DaRat]

Guys, enough of this flaming - put an end to it right now. This is not the place to discuss whether or not bdfy is trying to sell addons, hell, it's absolutley nothing to do with the addon and it sure as hell has no place on this forum.

[JdB]

-Advertising the selling of addons without a license from BIS will get anyone caught doing this on our site or forums banned, just like the BIS forums we do not allow this;
-Anyone linking to the site, or otherwise aiding in getting to the site will be banned.

[D@V£]

Way I see it, it should be allowed.

Controversy!

Ok, I admit, that does sound a bit off, but people are thinking at the "turbosquid OMG £500 per model" level. Which is, to be honest, madness. A small fee for downloads (I'm thinking along the lines of one 1p (£0.01) or similar) could bring a lot of creativity into the games. It doesn't seem like a lot, but it'll add up. Just take some figures for arguements sake. The ever controversial Mig15 has been downloaded 1684 times from Armedassault.info since it was released. That would be about £16.84 (about $34 give or take).

I'm sure a penny addon would be just as nice as the penny sweets.

[Gunslinger]

i agree with Dave. but maybe that money could go to a cause like freeing Tibet... for an example. some noble cause, we all care about.

[dg]

The 500$ Addons at Turbosquied are cheap. Because they're not made for Users, many Cooperations don't create their own stuff, because they need many and build it theirself is too expensive.
Then comes a M4 for e.g. 1000$. Thats much cheaper than set up workers.

One selfmade M4A1 cost the cooperation ca. 3000$+ four lost days.
One selfmade enterable house cost the cooperation ca. 6000$ and 8 days.


And if you are in the movie branche, you have to pay ca. twice, cause you got no large developer team and need tripple quality.
You see, its a very good way to sell things for 500-2000$


But if you convert original stuff without permission and sell it, you have to pay much money if you get caught

[bdfy]

One selfmade M4A1 cost the cooperation ca. 3000$+ four lost days.
One selfmade enterable house cost the cooperation ca. 6000$ and 8 days.

from your posts it don't look like you know what you're talking about numbers are just insane.
Turbosquied is insane service too. i don't know who use it. when i see a ball for 50$ there, you know it makes me laugh. loud.

maybe i will write smth more substantial later, when i got some time. though i don't see any real sense in this discussion. it's nothing but flame in here

[dg]

it don't look like you know what you're talking about

One e.g. M4 cost a cooperation like EA ca 3000$, thats right
On one M4 working,

Soundmaker,
Texture Artist
Modeler
Config Optimator
Costs for recort gunshots/other things

Whats wrong with that

Edit:
No Users using turbosquied, cooperations use,
I heard from Take 2 buying entire 3d model houses, just to spare time and money.

[BigglesTrevor]

let me have my say in this debate. It is easy to say that people would be just doing it to make profit from the community, however it would be the community members who choose to buy it. If the addon is not up to scratch and there is free verions produced by othe people then why would anyone buy it? As long as the original model is produced by the person wishing to sell the addon i have no problem with it.

Its worked for other games, why shouldnt it work for ArmA? I dont know much about the bdfy case, from what i gather hes stealing other people work then selling it on? That is unaceptable, but at the same time if anyone is foolish enough to purchase it then they get what they deserve.

Calling them the cancer of the community, fair enough, but that would imply that community members are leaving (being killed off) by it. Bear in mind this is from a company who willingly sold people of a whole nation a unfinished product (effectivly charging them to be beta testers). What made more people leave the ArmA community? i know for sure which one.

[d@nte]

in my opinion:

if you use the BIS tools, you can't sell the models, if you use other programs like I do, you can sell the models outside the community of course. (this is simple, no!!!!)

this is not a specificity of BIS.

That is unaceptable, but at the same time if anyone is foolish enough to purchase it then they get what they deserve.

you forget the honesty. steal something is not acceptable

[Daniel Von Rommel]

In my opinion, you're a disgrace to every single user of this forum and of every single member of the whole ArmA community.

Go away and never come back.


Seriously, I don't even see the point in being civil with a such "person" as you, but go read the BIS EULA and the forum's rules.

100% Agreed with Placebo

[pMASTER]

In my opinion, you're a disgrace to every single user of this forum and of every single member of the whole ArmA community.

Go away and never come back.


Seriously, I don't even see the point in being civil with a such "person" as you, but go read the BIS EULA and the forum's rules.

100% Agreed with Placebo

Calm the crap down. You have the right to disagree, but so has he.