Adblock useful tool or unfair program Options

[Killer_Chiller]

Hi all, I wanted to start this discussion since I use the adblock program for those sites that really deserve it. You know the ones you have to really search for the actual content. Anyways, I really believe that it can be a useful program if its not abused. I really want you guy's input on this subject. Espescially since this program affects this site (my favorite)!

P.S. I have adblock turned off for armedassault.info but I keep getting the popup about adblock being bad. Does this mean the site is not getting revenue off of me? Because if you guys aren't getting paid because adblock is not allowing you to get revenue from me I'll just go ahead and uninstall it.

[d@nte]

i use also Adblock; and i don't have any problems here or on other websites

[Blackbuck]

Likewise I use it and no issues with it here or elsewhere. Maybe this should be in the hardware and software topic?

This post has been edited by Helping Hand: May 3 2008, 09:50

[Deadeye]

No it can stay here, as it is discussion thread about if Adblock is an program that is killing the free internet or not

@Killer_Chiller : Hm well if you've enabled ads for our site the popup should disappear. If it doesn't we might have to check the script again.

[Daniel Von Rommel]

I have Pmed you.

On the subject,

Users have the right to try
Sites have the right to try and stop us.

p.s.
It doesn't make any change if you see the ads or not, it only changes if you click on them, unless they are spyware or popups etc.. Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm not fully sure)

This post has been edited by Daniel Von Rommel: May 3 2008, 10:50

[Toadball]

I see no problem with the program, users of the internet are not obliged to click on the adds of the websites they visit just because they are there. If a website chooses to make some revenue from ads then the people running it should accept some people may not want to see those ads and will use programs to avoid it and they could thus find otherways to bring in money.
It's a form of business and in any form of business you've got to accept there will be some people who are just not interested and find a different way to make money from them.
That being said, I do not believe every website with ads is out to rip the meager contents of my walet from me lol.

[D@V£]

I see no problem with the program, users of the internet are not obliged to click on the adds of the websites they visit just because they are there. If a website chooses to make some revenue from ads then the people running it should accept some people may not want to see those ads and will use programs to avoid it and they could thus find otherways to bring in money.
It's a form of business and in any form of business you've got to accept there will be some people who are just not interested and find a different way to make money from them.
That being said, I do not believe every website with ads is out to rip the meager contents of my walet from me lol.

It's not a matter of them clicking on the adverts. It's not a matter of them buying the items advertised.


It's a matter that some people will genuinely find these adverts useful.
(You might not consciously accept it, but if you try and tell me that you've never found advertising useful in some situations then you must be living under a rock or something)


You might not, but that's always the case with advertising.
I'm just going to say, if you don't like how a site gains revenue, then don't go to the site. IMO, stuff like Adblock is killing the free internet. It's a simple fact that most of us live in capitalist states. This website is hosted in a capitalist state. Directly, or indirectly, money makes the world go round. It's not a difficult concept to understand that without these adverts the site would simply be unable to maintain a good host (or, any host, to be precise). I'm sure, we can all put up with seeing a few when we can get decent download speeds from the site.

None of the adverts on this site are malware or spyware. There is no reason to block the adverts on this site. Some other sites might not operate on the same pretenses, but if you don't like the adverts, them you are free to not go to those sites.

The alternatives is a poor quality site (nearly always down and extremely poor download speeds) or a pay-per-download site (subscribe $50 per mb). I'm sure no one here would like to have either of them. Unless they're some sort of communist crack (Like a certain person round here who shall remain nameless, for obvious reasons).

[Daniel Von Rommel]

Hooray for flaming.

It's a matter that some people will genuinely find these adverts useful.

Those someones can turn off their adblock (or uninstall it or never install it etc.)

You might not consciously accept it, but if you try and tell me that you've never found advertising useful in some situations then you must be living under a rock or something

I have Never found an Internet ad useful in my life.

Unless they're some sort of communist crack (Like a certain person round here who shall remain nameless, for obvious reasons).

Yeah Love you too "Capitalist crack".

Now if someone wants to explain me one thing:
How do the ad companies pay the site? I mean, they just pay to add them, they pay for each click?

This post has been edited by Daniel Von Rommel: May 5 2008, 12:35

[Toadball]

It varies, sometimes a website will have to have ads that they have no control over as part of the terms and conditions of their hosting.
I know google ads are pay per click they recieve (I've probably acidentally made some sites money by acidentally clicking one or two), I assume others will be like bill boards in that a company will pay the site owner/host for the ad space for as long as they want it there or if they have a 'contract' type arangement for the duration of the contract and if its making them money i presume they would renew it.

I've rarely found an ad of any interest to me (very few on world domination etc ) but as there is money in it, i can only assume that others do find them of interest.

[D@V£]

I have Never found an Internet ad useful in my life.

I don't believe you. Like I said, you might not consciously accept it, but are you trying to tell me you've never seen a trailer for a movie you wanted to see? Are you trying to tell me you've never seen an advert for a program on the television that you've subsequently watched? Just because it's on the Internet doesn't make it any different to either of those examples.

You never know, maybe if you click on one of them you might find something useful there.

Yeah Love you too "Capitalist crack".

Who won the cold war?

Now if someone wants to explain me one thing:
How do the ad companies pay the site? I mean, they just pay to add them, they pay for each click?

They pay for the adverts being on the site (or google, in the case of the google-adverts, who in turn pay the site), which in turn pays for the server which hosts the site. It's not rocket science, is it?

[Daniel Von Rommel]

I don't believe you. Like I said, you might not consciously accept it, but are you trying to tell me you've never seen a trailer for a movie you wanted to see? Are you trying to tell me you've never seen an advert for a program on the television that you've subsequently watched? Just because it's on the Internet doesn't make it any different to either of those examples.

Sorry, let me reformulate

I have Never found an Internet-only ad useful in my life.

You never know, maybe if you click on one of them you might find something useful there.

As above (the reformulated one)

Who won the cold war?

Noone "wins" wars, also, an open conflict would have ended the human race.
Now, I won't get started on puppy president and other wierd political crap because they don't fit in the topic.

It's not rocket science, is it?

As proven by Jinx's post, there are many types of ad-payment, and I have no idea which one is in use here, I think it's a legitimate question, of course, if you have the MOIP (Mind Over Internet Protocol) power then the question is stupid, But I don't have it.

[JdB]

Hooray for flaming.

We'll decide when flaming occurs, thank you.

I don't know exactly why Daniel Von Rommel has to keep bringing up the way this site is paid for. If you don't agree with it you are free to leave, like you said you would in the ["Dedicated" thread] that we have about the usage of ads on this site. This thread was opened to discuss the general use of Adblock, the mentioning of this site being a mere related question that he wanted to see answered, not as another opportunity for you to attack a site that is offering you a free service that you will undoubtedly have used at least once. If you didn't agree with the ads policy then, or now, you should stop using this unethical site. What's stopping you? Good old capitalist greed? By accessing the site or the forums and not clicking away from them at the first sign of displeasure, you agree with it's terms of use.

Since you haven't switched to another site that doesn't use ads like you want pretty much proves that other sites use similar methods of getting some money back through ads, and quite a common feature of the capitalist system, having to pay for a service rendered, or that you are more likely just a troll. We can also force you to leave, since this site is private property and you're not paying for it, thereby having no contract or other kind of moral or legal right to anything.

Everybody wave goodbye to Daniel Von Rommel, who is going to search for a better site of his choosing (again)

I am not bothered by the use of ads. I don't even notice the ads when I'm using most sites. Placing ads is not just about how many you place, it's where you place them that matters, both for getting them noticed and most importantly for keeping your site pleasant to look at. No matter how many ads you have placed, if they're making the site hard to use, visitors won't come back again.

[Daniel Von Rommel]

I'm not attacking the site now, so would you please keep your "gentle" talk for forum criminals?
I really have the feeling every post you make is an arm battle with the "felon", really, Peace!

I'm just asking Which way this site is paid! D@ve used this site as an example too.

By the way I solved my problem with ads (I thought I wrote this somewhere not too long ago, oh well).

Well that's pretty much it I guess.

This post has been edited by Daniel Von Rommel: May 5 2008, 19:31

[D@V£]

Sorry, let me reformulate

I have Never found an Internet-only ad useful in my life.

If you really want to believe theres a difference between an Internet advert, an advert on the TV, one at a theater, one on the radio and a billboard on the site of a motorway, then be my guest. But I don't see any difference personally. Maybe the method of delivery is different, but it's still the same thing at the basic level.

And, as I have already said, it doesn't matter if you don't find them useful, because there are people who do.

Let's have a look at whats on the mainpage right now, shall we?

Zwinky... don't know what that is... but I think I've seen some people with it. So some people have obviously clicked on one of those adverts.
Oh, and look at the Banner Ad! It's OFP.info! What better example?

I will admit that there are some sites that have adverts that aren't particularly likely to be clicked, but come on, if people weren't clicking them, they wouldn't be there, would they? If you want to take such a draconian measure as blocking every advert, then you're stealing from people like Cervo, who run this site and you're only censoring yourself.

How can you claim to support freedom when you're blocking your own?

Noone "wins" wars, also, an open conflict would have ended the human race.
Now, I won't get started on puppy president and other wierd political crap because they don't fit in the topic.

Har har har! "Let's be quick to cover up our failure by bring up old cliches".
Simple fact is there's no real communist powers right now, there are a hell of a lot of capitalist ones. And if you even try to tell me China is communist...

[Daniel Von Rommel]

If you really want to believe theres a difference between an Internet advert, an advert on the TV, one at a theater, one on the radio and a billboard on the site of a motorway, then be my guest. But I don't see any difference personally. Maybe the method of delivery is different, but it's still the same thing at the basic level.

Just to make some examples,

I change TV stations during the ads, I enter in cinemas/theater a while after to avoid the ads, I look at road signs only to check if they give useful info (that means no ads, at max a nearby Restaurant)

And, as I have already said, it doesn't matter if you don't find them useful, because there are people who do.

And, As I have already said, noone is forced to use adblock, There are people who don't find them useful.

Let's have a look at whats on the mainpage right now, shall we?

Zwinky... don't know what that is... but I think I've seen some people with it. So some people have obviously clicked on one of those adverts.
Oh, and look at the Banner Ad! It's OFP.info! What better example? biggrin.gif

I have no idea what "Zwinky" is and I think I never saw one, but anyway, I haven't blocked the OFP.info banner, it doesn't "menace" (wrong term but whatever) me in any way.

I will admit that there are some sites that have adverts that aren't particularly likely to be clicked, but come on, if people weren't clicking them, they wouldn't be there, would they?

I'm not pretending no one likes ads, You, for example, seem to like them, but as there are people who like to click on ads, there are people who hate them and don't even want to risk clicking.

How can you claim to support freedom when you're blocking your own?

I can disable Adblock anytime if I want to, protecting myself (censoring like you say) is a freedom to me.

Har har har! "Let's be quick to cover up our failure by bring up old cliches".
Simple fact is there's no real communist powers right now, there are a hell of a lot of capitalist ones. And if you even try to tell me China is communist...

Old Cliches? Like the fact Bush is a human? (Bad joke, but you get the point I think)
Well, come tell me China is capitalist (it's something in between a little more on the commie side imho)

And, a hell of a lot of capitalist powers?
I see only one and it's falling apart slowly (yes I'm pointing my finger at you, USA)
Unless you consider countries like Germany "powers", they are strong countries but I wouldn't consider them so.

This post has been edited by Daniel Von Rommel: May 5 2008, 21:04

[D@V£]

How exactly are you protecting yourself? And what from!? The simple truth?
I can understand something like a pop-up blocker, but this isn't a matter of malware, I'm talking purely in the context of banner ads.

There is nothing harmful about them, they aren't restricting your usage of the site, they aren't damaging your loved ones and they aren't an eyesore. There's nothing wrong with banner ads. They're simply conveying a message.

Nearly much every browser features a pop-up blocker, and will warn you of phishing attempts. Anti-spyware programs are widely available for free (usually sponsored by the very same banners, I might add), there is no danger of malware from not using this program (Unless you're visiting sites of questionable legality which rely on equally questionable sponsors...).

The only thing this program does is rob this site, and many other sites like it.

You might not like to think of it like that, but it's the simple truth.


(Maybe the US isn't doing too well, but if China's communist then I'm a Tibetan monk. The fact is, pretty much every country (save for those few stragglers) are basing their political views on capitalist ideology.)

[Daniel Von Rommel]

How exactly are you protecting yourself? And what from!? The simple truth?

The simple truth of what? You talk of it like Canadian drugs, gay dating sites or ebay are the "truth" (to make some examples)

There is nothing harmful about them, they aren't restricting your usage of the site, they aren't damaging your loved ones and they aren't an eyesore. There's nothing wrong with banner ads. They're simply conveying a message.

Those are only opinions.
They may be harmfull, they are an "eyesore" (I would just have used "ugly", but you love extreme terms so much) and they slow down the site (unless you have some high speed connection).

The only thing this program does is rob this site, and many other sites like it.

That all depends on the kind of payment the particular site uses. Also it hasn't been outlawed (yet, you may want to add), so as long as that doesn't happen, It's perfectly legal to use it, and it's perfectly legal for sites to try to prevent us from using it (Like this site's anti-adblock popup)

Maybe the US isn't doing too well, but if China's communist then I'm a Tibetan monk. The fact is, pretty much every country (save for those few stragglers) are basing their political views on capitalist ideology.

Where I said China IS communist? Please quote it.

P.S. So your point is making me say I'm robbing the site?

This post has been edited by Daniel Von Rommel: May 6 2008, 13:39

[D@V£]

Yes. That is my point exactly. By using AdBlock you are robbing the site.

I could argue all day as to how adverts are useful and the benefits of capitalism, and that sort of thing, but it's all irrelevant, because when it comes down to it;

1. The site gains revenue from the ads
2. This revenue goes towards providing the site with a good host.
3. In turn, this provides the users of the site with good download speed and a reliable service.

Hence, if the adverts are pulled (because, maybe everyone's blocking them);

1. The site looses it's source of revenue.
2. The owner is unable to pay for a good host.
3. The site is forced to shut down or charge for usage.

That is the simple truth. If you want to try arguing with it, then be my guest.
Because there's no sane way you can tell me that by cutting the source of income and still using the service is in any way acceptable. It's robbing the site, and, more importantly, robbing the users of the site.

Just because it isn't illegal doesn't mean it shouldn't be. Pirates Bay isn't illegal, but anyone who makes legitimate software will instantly tell you that it should be taken down and unspeakable acts done unto the operators.

(for the Record, I have never seen this site advertising Canadian Drug Companies, Gay Dating Sites or Ebay. And even then, there are people who will use these services. And if no ones advertising these services then they won't be able to find them without actively searching, will they? )

[Daniel Von Rommel]

Well then our discussion has ended peacefully, We'll have to agree on the fact I protect myself in a way you consider robbing.

By the way

for the Record, I have never seen this site advertising Canadian Drug Companies, Gay Dating Sites or Ebay. And even then, there are people who will use these services. And if no ones advertising these services then they won't be able to find them without actively searching, will they?

Canadian Drug companies were one of the most common popups I was getting with IE years ago
Gay dating sites is on this site as reported by a member who posted a pic (I agree it's very rare)
I just invented Ebay because no better idea came at my mind at the moment.

[JdB]

Many large corporations that specialize in online advertising/fraud use IP addresses that narrow down where the user is located, and provide spam according to that location (including the name of the town/city that you live in). Another popular method is using cookies, spyware or data-logging to analyze the surfing behavior or the visitors. Another method is using data-harvesting bots to extract things like IP addresses and e-mail addresses from websites and forums. They can then use this information to combine requests for visiting a website (hostname, e-mail address and possibly also IP address) and the data they have gathered in the past regarding the unique visitor from all the sites that their data-miners have worked through, to display ads that are customized to maximize the chance of success that the ads have. Even when you're not being shown the actual ads, these companies already have your hostname and quite probably e-mail address meaning they can send you spam e-mail and harvest other marketing related data. The images are the end of the line product of online data harvesting. Not being shown the images doesn't really do anything positive to protect your online privacy.

If you are being shown specific things like Canadian Drug companies or Gay dating sites this will most likely mean that either you, or someone else that has been given the hostname and/or IP address that you're using now has looked at sites about that specific subject at one point.

I work in IT, and you won't believe the number of people that never give out private details in online forms and have Adblock or other anti-spyware/anti-adware programs installed as well as enterprise quality virusscanners and firewalls, feeling jolly good about themselves, while all their private details are out in the open, and their hard drives still infested with data harvesting tools. I've cleaned my fair share of systems that had stalled because of the junk on it. You only have to make one mistake in trusting some dodgy script or cookie (if you're even given the option of judging what to do with these yourself due to browser/OS vulnerabilities (or any one of the hundreds of thousand of applications that can access the internet and cause a leak in doing so)), and you're fried. If you think that this site is a threat to your privacy, than hold on to your seat, because every time you go online it will be like riding a roller coaster with no safety measures or braking system.