Bring Madeleine Home, Missing Girl in Portugal Options

[2Lt Highlander-16AAB-]

Would all especially those of you on the continent please have a look and pass it on


http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/support/

Spain
French
Portugese

[Elliot Carver]

Lo folks,

Now im probably going to make myself unpopular by saying this but i feel it needs to be said.

Its horrible when something like this happens and i do not wish to come across as disrispectful but...
The UK has seen this time and time again. Little girl gets snatched by peadophile due to stupid oversights by the pearants. The media hypes up the story untill the country is suckered in and when they finaly find the body the media runs headlines like "country mourns..." and we end up having 2 min silences and pictures of complete strangers taking coaches to lay flowers and cry their eyes out. Holly Wells and Jessica Taylor, Sarah Payne etc we all know whats going to happen. within 24 hours we've already had yellow ribbons appear all over the place with 'save maddie' on them, the media lapping up the paper sales making millions off the back of this. This website just proves how sucked in people get. Its sick.

What isnt being said is that none of this would of happened if the pearents bothered to look after the kid properly. What on earth were they doing leaving the kid in their bedroom on its own and going out for a night on the town? You wouldnt even leave a 12 year old alone. Serious questions need to be asked about the pearents and actually how fit they are to continue looking after the child if, through their neglect, they havnt lost the kid for good!

my two cents.
Carver

[Blackbuck]

I agree 100% with you carver as do my close family.

[D@V£]

I think Carver's hit the nail on the head. It's depraved what the media do for attention these days.

[pMASTER]

I second that. Nonetheless you should not forget the guilt feelings her parents probably have now. That little girl had birthday yesterday, it must be awful terrible for the parents not to know if her daughter at all became four years old now.

I feel touched when considering the high rewards offered by private persons for hints. That's a quite special (and good) form of sympathy.

[BigglesTrevor]

its a sad thing to happen to anyone

BUT

Im absolutly sick of the media coverige. Im starting to wonder whether the parents are starting to enjoy all the media coverige, always being filmed walking down an empty beach, meeting the pope, doing personal interviews with the papers etc.. It makes me sick it headlines above our troops dying in iraq. Somones children have just outright died fighting for the country wheres theres a chance madeline is alive and only lost due to dreadful parenting. sorry but i have to get this off my chest its realy pissing me off.

[Elliot Carver]

lo dude,

[rant]

Spot on there. I laughed when the father stood up and said they wernt able to enjoy the experiance of meeting the Pope becuase Maddie wasnt there. Especialy since they dumped their other two kids with folks back in Portugal. One thing that is worth pointing out is that there has been no emotion from the 'pearents'. Remembering back to cases like sarah payne the mother was breaking down in tears every 15 mins. The mcanns are smiling and waving at the cameras.

I wonder what would happen if the police were to investigate the family itself? They are a poor family from the slums of the UK with 3 kids. It wouldnt take much planning to sell one off to a peado ring. The father has his business links in Portugal selling houses and the monther is good at manipulation as proved by the media coverage. Also the Police are investigating links to Germany and Holland. It doesnt take 2 mins to work out that the 1st suspect arrested, the local peado, picked up the kid. The German hotel family stored the kid. And the russian computer guy took photos of the kid and then handed her off to a contact who took her deep into Europe to be a kid sex slave.

I cant stand how they are going on a 'tour of Europe' looking for the kid. Basicaly having a massive holiday off the back of donated money....which you could say has been gained fraudulantly. Lastly in this rant i have to say is probably the best bit. The mcanns are facing being arrested whe they come back to the uk and having the kids taken into protective custody. As soon as they find the body the pearents will be guilty of manslaughter through neglect. which is why they need a team of lawyers to protect them. They spent 3 days last week in personal interviews telling us how sorry they were that they had dumped their children in the hotel to go get drunk and that they were saddened. Good deflection tactics from the lawyers there! Play the puppydog eye card.

Arrest the pearents now, deport them back to the UK to stand trial. Protect the remaining two kids from the pearents and get the false story out of the media!

I know this comes across as heartless but so many things about this 'abduction' just dont add up.

Carver

[/rant]

[BigglesTrevor]

couldnt agree more. Perhaps this is chickens coming home to roost and a sign to bad parents across the land. The warnings are there, so dont bloody ignore them. What annoys me is the fact they have been made celebrities by it and the country has gone hysterical. In other cases the parents, like you say, have prefered relativly quiet mourning with a appeal here and there. In these other cases the parents wernt even at fault, its just the wright thing to do. If you ask me all the hype makes retrieveing the girl alive even less likely. The person with her is likely to just want to get rid.

[reed101]

Man i can't believe any of you guys, do any of you have children at all , let alone twins and another? i seriously doubt it by the sounds of it, because if you did you would realize , that these people will be blaming themselves far more than anyone else could , this is a parents worst fear, yes of course they did something stupid and got punished for it big time , so shame on them , but come on who hasn't done some thing stupid , do you really think that they should have to go through this ! we have all done something we know we shouldn't have and got away with it. as a parent i can understand the want to get some free time away from the kids , who to your knowledge are safe and sound , yes they were checking on them , yes they probably didn't think anything like this would happen , because nobody does , they made a mistake and they are paying a terrible price , This all stinks of hypocrisy, we all take risks in our lives with our loved ones at some stage , drink driving anyone not wearing a seat belt , speeding with your girlfriend next to you , drugs, should i go on ..all of these are just as selfish and stupid as leaving your children alone , but i bet all of you have done at least one of them, but as soon as its someone else we all pretend to be paragons of virtue , why , because they remind us of the fools in ourselves and we don't like being reminded that we are human and stupid and selfish so we poke a finger at them and say look how stupid they are they deserve this , its their fault , of course it is , its their fault for thinking that they could leave their kids not 20 meters away asleep in a hotel with child care , of course its their fault that their are nasty people in the world that want to kill rape or kidnap your children and do unspeakable things to them, its their fault right ??? for thinking that they could have a holiday with their family and not have one of them go missing???? its THEIR fault right?????? as for how they look on camera , what? who cares really THEY HAVE LOST THEIR FIRSTBORN CHILD! , they want her back , is it such a crime now , not to want to breakdown on camera , they want to keep there dignity can you blame them., so they are not crying and bawling in public , (do you think that they are not doing it in private?) what good would it do apart from get cynics like yourselves all wound up , "Look how they cry , what hypocrites they are" And on to the papers , they do what they always do , you can't blame the parents of a missing child to want to get as much exposure as possible can you? or do you think they should have waited for the kidnapper to send a ransom note ? so as not to scare them off... or maybe it wasn't a ransom and just some sadistic rapist peado or killer? mmm... what would i do in such a situation , lets just wait and see what happens ... not really an option is it? they papers want to sell papers thats their job don't get a family's tragedy mixed up with the business of the media . They don't care really , its just another headline , and don't you think the family knows this ! they are using the media as the media are using them , for their own ends , to help find MADELEINE their four year old daughter . And yes i know its a bit unpalatable the media going on about it , its a bit insincere ... like any charity organisation , it makes you feel a little uneasy , were used to seeing suffering , and theres nothing we can do about it so that makes us feel useless , and we dont like to feel useless. but iam willing to put up with that , because its for a good reason , a four year old girl is missing , and you might say thats just one girl , what about all the others , i would say its a start! Doesn't that girl deserve our help , all of us unconditionally , she is an innocent , we should sto[p playing the blame game because its a moot point the only thing that matters in this case is MADELEINE and finding her otherwise what good are we as people if cant help an innocent?

[Elliot Carver]

One question to you sir. As a parent would you leave 3 young children unattended in a foreign hotel to go out partying? In the UK leaving 3 young kids at home by themselves would lead to social services placing your children into care. If one of those children were to die whilst in your care and it was found that you were out partying you would be arrested and charged with manslaughter and child neglect and you would go to prison.

The difference with this case from others is that in the past there was nothing that the parents could have done more to protect the children. In this case the parents bought it upon themselves by leaving the kids unsupervised.

@reed101 As a father you should know that parenting is a full time, 24h a day job requiring 100% commitment. You have a duty to protect your child; your child has the right to be protected. If you can not provide this protection children should not be in your care.

Carver

[reed101]

One question to you sir. As a parent would you leave 3 young children unattended in a foreign hotel to go out partying? In the UK leaving 3 young kids at home by themselves would lead to social services placing your children into care. If one of those children were to die whilst in your care and it was found that you were out partying you would be arrested and charged with manslaughter and child neglect and you would go to prison.

The difference with this case from others is that in the past there was nothing that the parents could have done more to protect the children. In this case the parents bought it upon themselves by leavunsupervised.ing the kids

@reed101 As a father you should know that parenting is a full time, 24h a day job requiring 100% commitment. You have a duty to protect your child; your child has the right to be protected. If you can not provide this protection children should not be in your care.

Carver

First off, in reply to your question, No i wouldn't leave my Children alone in a Foreign hotel whilst i was out "partying" or having a quiet evening meal with friends 100 yards away , or a least i would like to think i wouldn't . But alas we are all not the same in the world , and like i said earlier we all do things that we shouldn't at some point just because we have children doesn't mean we are exempt, and to deny that you do makes you a liar , i have not known anyone in my life without a regret , be it about parenting or whatever, and i am not making excuses they did what they did , neglect yeah i agree and as i said shame on them, thats their guilt their problem , and maybe a public apology or explanation would go along way to making them seem more culpable , and therefore less innocent and more tolerable to a cynical general public, but to what avail ? would that change whats happened ..No should they throw themselves at the feet of the national and beg forgiveness, ? no , to their daughter YES to us no i don't think that is necessary .

"In the UK leaving 3 young kids at home by themselves would lead to social services placing your children into care. If one of those children were to die whilst in your care and it was found that you were out partying you would be arrested and charged with manslaughter and child neglect and you would go to prison."

That maybe true , but in what way is that best thing to in that situation?, they did not intentionally mean any harm to come to their child , that law is their to protect children from harm but if harm has already happened what good is that law? , then you might say to punish , or to be seen to be punishing people for not looking after their children, i would say their is no punishment worse than what they are going through, prison i would welcome prison for i would want punishment for my mistake , i would want forgiveness , how many years locked away from their other children is punishment for the Mcann's one, five , ten , and then when the return having missed their other children's upbringing not pursuing their quest for Maddy, they will be sorry ? will they be anymore sorry than they are now? will justice have been done , or be seen to be done by wrecking what future the twins might have be separating them from there parents because of one mistake, can we then sit back and say i told you so , and our small nation will be the better for it? will i or anybody else think twice before leaving their children alone , because the Mcann's went to prison? or will we be adding insult to injury?

The laws in this country are fallible , they are not axioms , if i were to run over a child in my car whilst under the influence , i maybe charged and released within a year. If i were a police officer i could shoot an unarmed man to death and not be charged ," mendes" anyone?. yet paradoxically i could not pay T.V liscence and go to prison for a year.!!!? The laws are not consistent and if they are not consistent they are nothing.


"The difference with this case from others is that in the past there was nothing that the parents could have done more to protect the children. In this case the parents bought it upon themselves by leaving the kids unsupervised. "


Yes that is the difference that has everybody riled isn't it! They made a terrible judgment that has cost them dearly , but to be fair their are always times your children are unsupervised, when i go shopping they run off round the corner your heart goes in your mouth , i took my kids to ball pool and thought i had lost one , found after 30 mins worst 30 mins in my life , what iam trying to say is , I think only a parent can understand these concerns , as a good parent you constantly put the well fair of your children first and foremost , but every day there will be something to test you , making a bad judgment crossing the rd, a child swallowing a chip the wrong way, i personally bit my son's toenail when i couldn't find the scissors when he complaining from it, i didn't think nothing of it , until i had to take him to A and E because bacteria in my saliva had infected his toe ??? and i felt utterly terrible and shame full , like the worst father in the world, what are the chances of that happening ? pretty frequent actually, just one example of a daily constant worry and threat, i guess what i am saying is , you do your best but sometimes , you f*ck up , and yes you are to blame , but i know my kids can only be looked after the best in the world by me , and every parent thinks that , but we will make mistakes , everyone and i mean everyone does, and thats all the Mcann's did make a mistake.

"The difference with this case from others is that in the past there was nothing that the parents could have done more to protect the children. In this case the parents bought it upon themselves by leaving the kids unsupervised. "

In what way is this helpful they brought it upon themselves, this reminds me of rape victims , "she was wearing a short skirt mylud , thus she deserved to be raped " in no did they bring it upon themselves , someone took Madeleine ,,with all intention, there is always something more you can do as a parent to ensure their safety but you can never do all, just because they didn't does not mean they are responsible though i guess they feel that way, the person responsible is the person or persons that took her from her bed no one else, its not as though she fell outa bed and died someone took her and by blaming the parents you are diminishing the responsibility of the real criminals , nothing may have happened that night if there wasn't someone there ready to steal her and there was nothing to suspect they would i imagine , there only crime was being naive.


"@reed101 As a father you should know that parenting is a full time, 24h a day job requiring 100% commitment. You have a duty to protect your child; your child has the right to be protected. If you can not provide this protection children should not be in your care."

You know i like your argument , and i am pretty sure most parents would agree with you , including the Mcann's

[D@V£]

I'm sorry Neil, but I have to agree with Carver here, call me heartless (I am), but if your leaving a child on their own (a 3yr old at that) and something happens to it, then it's the parents responsiblity. If they were at a Hotel, well, most of the Hotel's I've been to have had some sort of "Kids Club" where parents can leave their children.

IMO, if neglecting a child is a crime, then they are criminals.

[reed101]

mmm.... seems that i am either very soft , or very enlightened , and i know iam not enlightened ,

Just talked to my partner and she agrees with you guys nearly 100 percent, although i think there is a seperate class issue as well , the fact that because the couple wasn't a poor family from the estates but a well to do middle class doctor and whatnot , she seems to think they would have been investigated more thoroughly, gotta agree with that!

Lets be hypothetical here, lets say the couple regularly left their 2 year old twins and 3 year old daughter on that holiday , so they could have a pissup !
lets say that the kidnapper noticed what lax parenting skills the couple had and took advantage ... lets say that racked with grief and guilt the couple do everything in there power to get Madeline Back seeing the pope , ect.., lets also say that in Portugal they had the same laws for neglecting children and the couple were took to account , lets say that the did there time learn' t there lesson ect.. would they be less irratating would justice have been done , would that make them any less repsonisble for what had happend? would it change anything?......

It seems to me that unless they are SEEN to regret their actions , and are accountable that justice is done and they are ...actually
i don't think anything will change peoples opinions , they did the unthinkable ,betrayed their own childrens trust, they commited the cardibnal sin of abusing there power as parents and everyone wants their pound of flesh from them .

maybe you are all right ... maybe its just my eternal optomistic nature , that places humans as forgiving and excepting people , or maybe i just misread the signs and they are just a couple of freebooting po faced guilty pleasure seekers ,
truth is i think they did something bad , got punished in way far worse than we can imagine, and are just looking for help , i really doubt they would leave their children again, i do think that they should be punished for child neglect , but only because if it happened to me i know i would be .

[D@V£]

I think I see where your coming from, but I find optimism worthless.

Some people just aren't forgiving. Just read the news to see that. If this was an isolated incident (ie, the first child to be abducted since x months), but it simpley isn't. There is plenty of misdoings in the world, let's have a look at some of todays headlines, shall we?

Police Officer Stabbed to Death.
Woman shot dead by Police.
Aid Works Killed in Lebenon.
Three die in Iraq bombing.
Father found guilty of daughters Murder.

All from todays news. Chances are by tommorow most of these storys will have been forgotten about.

If you believe that the parents are the victims here, then I can't really disagree with you there, it's a point of morality. But as far as the whole trips across europe and meetings with the Pope are concerned, as well as the ceaseless attentions of the media on this one story and huge amounts of donations, what has been achieved?

I'll let you make what you will of this. I think it sums up Carver's point quite well.

[reed101]

I respect your beliefs Dave , and you are correct , that you sum up carver's argument succinctly , but I cannot call optimism worthless , yes i agree there are people in the world ,commiting violent crimes , becuse they can . It part of our nature , PART not all , don't get me wrong optomism is anoying but the day i give up believing people can be less selfish , i feel something in me will die, i have this terrible battle dailey , people are twats , i get dissapointed but i refuse to come down to their level , why should i compromise my beliefs that people should be good ,they have the ability but choose not to be , why? (apart from the fact that i get really frustrated) maybe because they believe being nice is worthless ? nihalism anyone?
the world is as it is , and we can do more about than a flea on a dog, there fore be happy in the freedom that knowing all people are twats and you wont be dissapointed? Sounds tempting trust me , but i just can't teach my children , thats its not possible for things to change for the better maybe not globally but through small actions by being nice , although history would tell a differnt story, feudalism ,industrialism communism, capitalism basically the whole history of man ....mmmmm (dont think this is going as i intended) I don't want to save the world , but i also don't want the world to crush my spirit ,

I know i might sound naive , trust me iam not , i fully realise the potential for people to be arseholes , but surely the world is what we make of it !

(Today i will mostly be using the word NICE)

[Elliot Carver]

Lo folks,
I think we could go into a mass debate about ethics and quality of life here but that would be getting a little off topic.
Reed101 I can understand where your comeing from. What ever the circumstances are the kid herself deserves a chance to be found.
But at the nitty gritty end of life the dark truth is thats not going to happen. The police would have told the family this and thats why they are having their 'grieving prierod'. As dodgy and twisted this episode has been its still a tragedy. It will go down in the books untill the next kid gets taken and then Maddie will be a statistic on an ever rising chart...
Carver

[reed101]

quote " What ever the circumstances are the kid herself deserves a chance to be found. "


I agree and when 2ltHighlanderAAB opened this post thats all he was doing trying to help find her , through the only way he could probably , just trying to make the world a better place by being helpful.

quote "But at the nitty gritty end of life the dark truth is thats not going to happen."

That girl is either alive or dead, no one here knows, if she is dead point taken , but if there is a chance she is still alive , and there is ,since there is no proof she is dead then we must do everything we can untill the other is proven , nothing would stop me looking for my kid , if this happened , you wouldnt be able to stop yourself, even that woman who had her son stolen from the med 15 years ago is still looking ! because how could you stop, knowing your child that you love is ,...well anything i guess not having a good imagination would be a blessing. If there is anygood in people and i believe there is good and bad in equal measure , then that link might help someone might recognize her and phone the police , i know its a longshot , but its better than nothing. so with that i will add another picture in hope that it might change something for the better in this world ,it might not but what has it cost me if it helps that girl to be found .?

quote "As dodgy and twisted this episode has been its still a tragedy. It will go down in the books untill the next kid gets taken and then Maddie will be a statistic on an ever rising chart..."

Yeah a tragedy i agree , but also a massive insencere meadia hype like you said , that will be forgotten about , as soon as the next victim appears , your right. The media coverage is with all seriousness very flippant , and yes your right i hate been manipulated by the media, but the reason they can manipulate you is because you still care . I have guilt victim over f*cking load what do you want from me , i cant change anything, all this bad news is just making me feel worse, i have had enough, and maybe when the next victim appears i will be equally sucked in , but shouldnt we be , maybe the next victim will be my child , i would want every one to do what they could forever, so maybe its just a vested interest i have because it rings so many bells for me .

[BigglesTrevor]

well apparently there was a sighting in morroca so chances are she might still be alive. However the fact the parents have decided to "rest" in a holiday villa in spain for the summer is a little suspect there taking advantage of the situation.

[Elliot Carver]

lo folks,

Sooo they finally arrested the mother. Its only taken the Portuguese Police 6 months to work out what everyone's been telling them since day 2 that the parents are the killers.

[The Police] have suggested that blood has been found in a hire car that they hired 25 days after Madeleine was taken." sourse: bbc.co.uk/news

Anyone remember those few days they had when they got back from their tour of Europe to "rest"? They fell out the media spot light for a few days. It was around 25 days after the girl went missing.

The mother is the second suspect in the case alongside peadophile Robert Murat. I think folks were going to see the lies this family has spun fall apart to reveal that the McCann's are this decades Moira Hindley and Ian Brady. Im glad they are in Portugal, least there they will get the prison sentence they deserve!

cheers,
carver

[brataccas]

moronic parents. I dont pity them, I just pity the girl :S