Guerilla of today Options

[Gunslinger]

really i had to go to the Philippines

like i said the war is all across globe, Africa, Middle east, hell its even in the mid-west

[pMASTER]

Mid-West? Where is that supposed to be if not in the United States itself?

The problem is the lack of guts in our modern governments, an omnipresent cowardice which exposes us to all kind of extremists and makes our people welcome surrender. Hooray, we give in!

Till the early nineties, a communist terrorist organization, the Red Army Faction, challenged the German state in a way never seen before. Systematically they murdered the highest echelons - judges, prosecutors, politicians.
Chancellor Schmidt ultimately overpowered them by not giving in. He ordered the GSG9 to wipe out the hostage takers of Mogadishu, despite knowing the RAF would kill the nations highest business kingpin afterwards. He let them taste their own medicine, and wore them down.
That's what our governments should do today. Instead of pledgeing withdrawal and surrender, they should threaten with revenge for every new abducted citizen, for every new act of violence. Unfortunately, that's how the world is working. Neither mankind survives through compassion and reserve, nor does a single individual achieve its aim without determination. Ancient cultures became what they were through determination and recklessness. By recklessness and determination, the axis conquered a fifth of the globe. By recklessness and determination, the modern Islamism is on the advance.

[Daniel]

Offtopic:

It was only after the British raided a vessel heading for Ireland with ex-Soviet tanks on board did funding mysteriously seace.

Woah??

[JdB]

The problem is the lack of guts in our modern governments, an omnipresent cowardice which exposes us to all kind of extremists and makes our people welcome surrender. Hooray, we give in!

That's what our governments should do today. Instead of pledgeing withdrawal and surrender, they should threaten with revenge for every new abducted citizen, for every new act of violence.

Unfortunately that doesn't get you reelected, which is the ultimate goal of every politician. If even so much as one soldier dies, the media, eager for bringing yet another government to it's knees screams in outrage, the idiotic population soon follows resulting in the troops being withdrawn. The only thing any western armed force (except for the US) can get support for from the peace-loving former hippies, is distributing food parcels.

If Desert Storm had taken any longer than "100" hours, the media would have screamed "DEFEAT!!!" and the troops would have been withdrawn as well by a scared-to-death general consensus. The real situation on the ground doesn't change any of that, the media will just twist it in order to have a scoop. Full freedom of press is one of the worst mistake in the history of Western civilization. Conducting wars by listening to the general opinion has never worked, nor has it ever been attempted as far as I can remember until Vietnam (where the US had to withdraw because a large majority of the population no longer supported the war, which would have been won eventually), which was also lost to the media and not the NVA, Vietcong, USSR or China.

In that regard more militaristic extreme right governments getting into power would be a good thing, since they are generally good at waging wars and ignoring the idiots families that only want to live in peace and think that will be achieved by group hugs and keeping your armed forces at home (or preferably disbanded).

[pMASTER]

Poeple have lost the knowledge about the price of freedom in particular and the importance of national pride, with which I don't mean this silly national feeling of the right wing, in general.
To a certain degree, I'd blame the Americans for it. After 11th of September attacks, the Western world realized wherefrom the new menace came, and closed ranks. That has changed with the war in Iraq, when the global battle against terrorism got a new, wicked reputation as a crusade motivated by greed and racism.
If you ask me, the occidental culture is worth defending it, but indeed the West is giving despite being far away from having no other choices.
Remember the Danish embassies that were burned down during the uprisings following the cartoons about Mohamed? A century ago, even such a small kingdom like denmark would have declared war on any country in which one of their diplomatic missions had been razed.
A majority of them tends to live in the Middle Age, so we cannot expect our Post-Modern politeness to help us.

[Gunslinger]

pMaster you have a point. a vary good one

[Daithí]

heh heh wedidn't 'win' Northern Ireland. The IRA went political and negotiated a peace accord which involved them sharing power. The British got their asses kicked out. The "real IRA" are still active and apparently "disarming". Ill take this opportunity to point out that the US funded the IRA for many years against the British like they funded the taleban against the Russians in Afghanistan. It was only after the British raided a vessel heading for Ireland with ex-Soviet tanks on board did funding mysteriously seace.
Actually the religious differences are slowly fading. The newer generations are growing up together and the peace deal is actually working. The differences these days are only played out in the gangs much like the situation between black and white gangs in London.
Northern Ireland went on for decades, were only 5 years into Iraq...

I reject your analysis on some of the topics you have raised. The US administration did not fund the IRA. It was the large republican support base that was organised by NORAID, and Irish Americans. The US security forces actively tried to stop these efforts, fundraising, arms procurement.
As for Soviet tanks..? That is total Bullsh*t to be frank. The situation is the same in Iraq. Britain is creating division, like it has done in the Middle East for decades. It is time they stopped the imperialism. Britain creates headlines such as Civil War, and Sectarianism to tarnish the real struggle for independence.
Brits Out - Britain out of Ireland, Scotland out of Britain.

[Elliot Carver]

Lo,
See this is the exact problem northern Ireland had. This clandestine, confrontational view spread through IRA propaganda and fear. The British were needed and in some extreme cases like this still are to keep people like you from destroying the peace process and returning Northern Ireland to war. But then the republicans never were interested in peace were they?
In Iraq Britain has successfully returned order to the streets in Basra, like Belfast, and has been able to hand power back to the people. Outdated attitudes like yours thankfully no longer have a voice and as such progress has been achieved.
You strike me as someone who wasn't overly unhappy when the IRA blew up Manchester town center in 1996...
Carver

[Zipper5]

I agree, Carver. I find the British military (along with us Canadians in Afghanistan Heh) to be some of the best in terms of restoring order. The US is there, but them being there certainly isn't restoring order. They've got to do something for that to happen really, and I know they are, but the Brits seem to get a hold on things much more quickly. Especially in Iraq. I don't know if it's luck, but then the Brits get lucky very often.

P.S. Daithí, your opinions are actually quite worrying as you seem to be, as Carver just mentioned, a person who wasn't totally unhappy with the atrocities the IRA carried out. I don't know if you're in a state of defiance by putting your avatar as the leader of the IRA, but be prepared for a lot of people to get insulted by what you have been saying... Just a heads up.

[pMASTER]

The British and the Canucks as well as the Americans - as the big devil - have a long history with sending armed forces to Afghanistan. Does somebody know whether that affects the allied efforts there?
Of course everything turns worse with an increasing involvement in Afghanistan for anybody, I know.
The first attack of the new year in Afghanistan again was aimed at Germans. Fortunately these terrorist scumbags rarely cause more than damage to gear and equipment with their mortars.

[JdB]

The British and the Canucks as well as the Americans - as the big devil - have a long history with sending armed forces to Afghanistan. Does somebody know whether that affects the allied efforts there?

I very much doubt the Afghans, not having received much in the way of an education prior to ISAF efforts, have a recollection of the British military activities in the 19th century.

[Daithí]

See this is the exact problem northern Ireland had. This clandestine, confrontational view spread through IRA propaganda and fear. The British were needed and in some extreme cases like this still are to keep people like you from destroying the peace process and returning Northern Ireland to war. But then the republicans never were interested in peace were they?

I'm actually offended by your remarks. At least two members of this forum will confirm that I play a big role in the Peace Process, since it's beginning. Just where have I suggested destroying the peace process? I was merely pointing out your fantasy of taliban tanks on a ship to the IRA.

In Iraq Britain has successfully returned order to the streets in Basra, like Belfast, and has been able to hand power back to the people. Outdated attitudes like yours thankfully no longer have a voice and as such progress has been achieved.

What attitude are you refering to?

You strike me as someone who wasn't overly unhappy when the IRA blew up Manchester town center in 1996..

You strike me as someone who has played too much command and conquer, pulled out a world map, and drew a line from Afghanistan to Ireland, and painted pictures of Soviet Tanks in Belfast.

I agree, Carver. I find the British military (along with us Canadians in Afghanistan boppin2.gif Heh) to be some of the best in terms of restoring order.

Like the shooting of 27 innocent civilians? Incursions onto the Irish Free State territory? Murder, torture and imprisonment.

your opinions are actually quite worrying as you seem to be, as Carver just mentioned, a person who wasn't totally unhappy with the atrocities the IRA carried out.

Where have I pointed this out? There are some operations I supported, others not, such as Guildford and others.

I don't know if you're in a state of defiance by putting your avatar as the leader of the IRA

Gerry Adams is not the IRA leader. The IRA leaders are a 7 man army council. Gerry Adams, pictured, is the president of Sinn Fein, elected representative, and rumours like the one you have mentioned are the same rumours that derail the peace process. So please retract.

but be prepared for a lot of people to get insulted by what you have been saying... Just a heads up.

What? Because I don't agree with your army in my country? Catch on to yourself.

[pMASTER]

I very much doubt the Afghans, not having received much in the way of an education prior to ISAF efforts, have a recollection of the British military activities in the 19th century.

Their century old victories over foreign invasion forces are from wall what I know essentially for their national pride. Furtheremore there are indications of the former British presence all over the country - In Kabul alone are six British cemeteries located.

That's why I have come up with that question...

[Zipper5]

What? Because I don't agree with your army in my country? Catch on to yourself.

It's not my army in your country first of all. If you look there on the left, it says clearly that I am Canadian.

Tell me then, for what reason DO you have Gerry Adams as your avatar and not the 7 leaders of the council? Why else would you put him there specifically when he's regarded as an internationally known terrorist? What benefit is he being your avatar if he's not the leader of the IRA, who appear to be the good guys from your view? You know that people will react to him being there, that's why you put him there, isn't it? Don't tell me to catch on to myself, please.

[Elliot Carver]

There are some operations I supported, others not, such as Guildford and others.

End of story. Anyone who openly supports the actions of terror organizations like the IRA doesn't deserve a moment more of my time.
With your loyalties to the IRA you should know the atrocities they committed ... Ethnic cleansing, genocide child bombers etc ... Its sick.

Truth is peace now exists in NI. The IRA decommissioned its weapons and took the political route. Your attitudes towards the British are, like i said, outdated and to be honest, laughable. Grow up

[Marxist]

I was wondering , are the Popular Front for Liberation of Palestine and Democratic Front for Liberation of Palestine still active? And what is ETAs official ideology?

[Bence]

Terrorists: my goverment! (socialist and communist government, led by teh dredful Gyurcsány Ferenc)

[Daithí]

I was wondering , are the Popular Front for Liberation of Palestine and Democratic Front for Liberation of Palestine still active? And what is ETAs official ideology?

PFLP is still alive, but like all socialist movements worldwide are somewhat marginalised, only to be active in hardcore working class areas.

ETA is socialist. It's supporters and members of Batasuna/SEGI suffer great oppression. It saddens me.

[Wittmann]

The next person to resort to a personal attack instead of having a DEBATE gets a kick in the arse. Your allowed any view or affiliation you want so long as you are not being racist, bigoted or sexist, and so long as you are not flaming.

If it does not stop after any action, the thread will be closed and politics banned from the forums.

[Daithí]

I was Post Restricted for ''ignoring'' JDBs request to stop political debate in this thread. I was the ONLY one PR'd infact.
But is'nt this thread all political?