Political Discussion Thread, Discuss World Politics and Related Topics In Here Options

[pMASTER]

I wish we'd all drop common sense and civil manners for but a moment and run around firebombing Arabian embassies and burning flags.

[JdB]

I wish we'd all drop common sense and civil manners for but a moment and run around firebombing Arabian embassies and burning flags.

Want to join me in kicking it off?

I mean sure, unlike when the immigrants do it and get a lousy fine, if arrested/charged at all, which is paid for by social security, we'd get several years in jail for racism, limiting freedom of speech, crimes against humanity, scaremongering, terrorism and the spreading of our fascist ideology. Sounds like a perfect plan to me

This post has been edited by JdB: Mar 5 2012, 18:04

[pMASTER]

My theory is those guys have too little sex, that's why they're so full of outrage1!11oneeleven all the time.

Then again...

[JdB]

My theory is those guys have too little sex, that's why they're so full of outrage1!11oneeleven all the time.

Then again...

My thoughts exactly. Mentally handicapped are missing a chromosome, muslims are missing the 3B-gene which is essential for normal behaviour.

Babes
Bacon
Beer

Not necessarily in that order.

This post has been edited by JdB: Mar 5 2012, 18:22

[Elliot Carver]

Got to be honest ive been looking for hours now but for the life of me i cant find any Libyan grave yards. Seeing as the British army has dead buried in most countries ( ) im surprised its taken this long ...

you know people in the uk got 4 years inside for saying less during the riots. less than drunk drivers who killed its worth noting. So on that thought im gunna go get wasted in bradford.

[Benoist]

Want to join me in kicking it off?

I mean sure, unlike when the immigrants do it and get a lousy fine, if arrested/charged at all, which is paid for by social security, we'd get several years in jail for racism, limiting freedom of speech, crimes against humanity, scaremongering, terrorism and the spreading of our fascist ideology. Sounds like a perfect plan to me

I don't understand, why is that Europe goverment are so afraid of enrage these extremist groups? I mean, if they burned an embassy it's no joke, get them prision time, send the mounted police, CS gas, something. Or go and murder every muslim you can find, I don't know, do they benefit Europe in some way? Why you don't treat them as any average citizen?

Yes, I'm saying, more or less, "KILL'EM ALL", but you are giving me the image that they are, basically, a pest. And alos, I don't get why your goverments are so relaxed with them.

[pMASTER]

I can't imagine that there is no such thing as "political correctness" at all in South America. Let's imagine for a second that some of your politicians praised Videla in public, what would the press' reaction be?

As I understand it, European nations live under the shadows of their past. To get afloat again (or to stay afloat) the political Left needs to keep the Right at bay somehow, and they achieve this by rooting against it and puttingh it near contemptible ideologies such as Fascism.
So if a German politician suggests immigrants should do more to integrate, the Left will call him a racist and revoke the memories of Nazi rule. If a British politician does the same, the Left will call him a racist again and revoke the memories of Colonialist rule. And so on, and so forth.

Maybe you Argies don't know this because you're basically on the other side. No offence meant, but from a historian's point of view you're immigrants as well and the indigenious people of your country are actually the original inhabitants, just as I'm an original inhabitant of Germany and Ahmed down the street is not.

[Benoist]

I can't imagine that there is no such thing as "political correctness" at all in South America. Let's imagine for a second that some of your politicians praised Videla in public, what would the press' reaction be?

Well, an important news paper put photos of a model and anchor naked... dead by cocaine overdose... in a "stundenhotel". So... And Videla, or anyone in the Junta, isn't someone supported right now, maybe a few groups, like skinheads or similar, but not a political party, not even the Right stands with him anymore, he destroyed the Armed Forces and put the right as instant fascists, so, they don't like him either.
However, our great Mayor of the City of Buenos Aires, Mauricio Macri, created "streat cleaners" that, while traveling in garbage trucks and colecting the trash, also assaulted homeless people and Bolivian, Peruvian and Paraguayan immigrants at night, even while they were in their own houses. The press (which is mostly right) didn't say anything and lots of people didn't complain either.
But, well, the "porteños" (people from Buenos Aires*).

Maybe you Argies don't know this because you're basically on the other side. No offence meant, but from a historian's point of view you're immigrants as well and the indigenious people of your country are actually the original inhabitants, just as I'm an original inhabitant of Germany and Ahmed down the street is not.

No offence taken, but then again, as I say, while we are all immigrants, I'm 4 generations Argie, like lots of people, maybe some are few generations more or less, but some people, mostly the right, sorry, feel like you do and hate the Bolivian, Peruvian and Paraguayan immigrants. Ok, one of their fest is to get drunk and beat the sh*t out of each other, and if they can destroy public property, even better. Because of that I know the feeling to say "Mate, alright, they can come, but if they do that or I'll have to call the police" while the leftist, or them, scream "FASCIST!".
Oh, and since the original inhabitants look like Bolivians (since they both are from the same region, the Andes and Altiplano) some people consider every nonwhite as an immigrant... The irony!


I hope that this post make some sense, I'm really tired and to lazy to reread for mistakes.


*I can't type "Buenos Aires" in English without saying it with a weird accent.

[pMASTER]

I have this certain feeling that you missed my point entirely.
Besides, where did I say that I "hate" immigrants?
An Argentinian bearing animosity towards a Bolivian is 1) a rather ridiculous occurence and 2) a weak comparison since - correct me if I'm wrong - most Bolivians aren't too different from Argentinians in terms of language (Spanish), confession (Catholicism) and political views (Leftism/Rightism or Pan-Americanism). When a Bolivian moves to Argentinia it's not as if two entirely different cultures and value systems were on collision course.
But that's exactly where our problems with "our immigrants" arise.
We have a female chief of government, whereas in Somalia a woman seeking employment as but a cleaning lady would be stoned to death for dishonoring her husband and family. Trouble is bound to happen when the very same male Somali who condones aforesaid idea moves to Germany, don't you think? For example, because that person thinks nothing of beating his wife into the hospital.
The attitude which you expressed - "Why don't your governments do more?" - is in fact pretty Rightist by European standards and could be met with harsh criticism. Everytime someone calls upon the government to "do more" they are set to be torn apart by the Left because this demand 1) doesn't fit into their view of the world, 2) gets in the way between them and their voters and 3) could serve the Right in gaining approval.
So they have to denounce it. They denounce it by putting the author near Fascism.
Most of the time they don't even have a majority for their ideas but they can effectively mute the opposition with their slurs. Being branded a Fascist in Germany or a backwarded Colonialist in the UK (and so on, and so on) basically ends a politician's career.

That's why the government doesn't "do more".

Note: With "Left" or "Right" I do not denote Communism or Facism but just the two opposing wings of the political spectrum.

[Benoist]

Well, saying that you hate immigrants was my bad.

We aren't so similar, while we both speak Spanish, they have a different religion, or in other terms, in a mix of their old indigenous religion with things of catholicism. And about the women, most of them move because they will find education and less violence than over there. In Bolivia, a woman job is to have kids and teach them, they don't study and work in the family farm, not much else. And minors, ~13, are forced into a sexual maturity by their society.

Still, there are more, and forgive for the word but I can't find anyother to express myself, "civilized" regions, like Santa Cruz, which is the most western city... Only because the rich and middle class live there, the other parts are mostly poor.
Still, not everyone is like that, aye? I told the worst of them just to get my point, not that everyone forces they children into sex, and a difference from Europe the society doesn't defend them, only with some cultural things, if someone beats their wife, mate, your going to jail.

Anyway, going back to topic... And why the left stands by them? I mean, if they burn an embassy, I doubt they will hold themselves back against the left when the time comes, the muslim are pretty rigid in their way of thinking to say "hey, let not kill them since they helped before". What does the left gain with them?

And the public is so gullible that if I call someone fascist I ruin his carreer? And what's the media stand in all this?

Oh, and "The attitude which you expressed - "Why don't your governments do more?"" isn't rightist to me, it's just that we have a problem, they way to solve it will say if we're from the right or from the left.

This post has been edited by Benoist: Mar 6 2012, 14:37

[pMASTER]

And why the left stands by them? I mean, if they burn an embassy, I doubt they will hold themselves back against the left when the time comes, the muslim are pretty rigid in their way of thinking to say "hey, let not kill them since they helped before". What does the left gain with them?

I'll put it very simple, so don't take it too literally.
1. The Right doesn't like Muslim immigrants. That's why the Left likes Muslim immigrants.
2. The Left thinks that disliking Muslim immigrants is a trait of Fascism, and the Left dislikes Fascism. That's why the Left likes Muslim immigrants.
3. Multiculturalism - the idea that nations renew themselves not by keeping their own traditions but by 'importing' new ones - is popular with the Left. That's why the Left likes Muslim immigrants.
4. Many Muslim immigrants dislike Israel. The Left dislikes Israel. That's why the Left likes Muslim immigrants.
5. Many Muslim immigrants dislike fundamentalist Christians. The Left dislikes fundamentalist Christians. That's why the Left likes Muslim immigrants.
5. The Left is reliant upon the votes of immigrants. That's why the Left likes Muslim immigrants.

And the public is so gullible that if I call someone fascist I ruin his carreer? And what's the media stand in all this?

The media are the driving force behind it. In fact the media are a Left stronghold in Germany with only three major newspapers supporting the Christian Democrats (Right) but about twenty supporting the Social Democrats and Greens (Left).

Let me introduce just one example: Last year a renowned German politician, who was acting vice governor of the Federal Bank at that time and also had been Minister of Finances of Berlin before, published a book where he condemned mass immigration as the source of violent street crime. The government's very own crime statistics show that he's right. The support for him was so great that he could sell 1 million copies of his book.
But the Left got cold feet because of his success and launched a verbal volley, branding him a racist and a inciter of hatred. By the end of the year he had lost his job with the Federal Bank and his party (Social Democrats) sorted him out. Nowadays he's got to have a police protection detail because of threats.

Oh, and "The attitude which you expressed - "Why don't your governments do more?"" isn't rightist to me, it's just that we have a problem, they way to solve it will say if we're from the right or from the left.

"Why don't your governments do more (about Muslim firebombings and general outrage)" is, by European standards, Rightist to its very core.

[JdB]

Nowadays he's got to have a police protection detail because of threats.

Which is all completely acceptable of course. If there are a few braindead neo-nazis committing a few murders, databases of just about everyone with conservative ideas have to be created, threat levels monitored hourly and all police and intelligence agencies pulled from trivial matters like catching gun-totting robbers, murderers and rapists to reinforce the "Conservatist thinking be gone"-image of the politicians in the media, to watch a few dozen neo-nazis of which one or two might some day turn into killers (and probably not even racially motivated ones). Meanwhile tens of thousands of militant skinheads swatting buildings because they don't feel like working and so cannot pay for the rent, threatening legal owners and beating them up, putting bombs in the subway system, turning every protest of any kind into a riot/battle with police, sabotaging public transport etc is all perfectly fine, constitution given rights obviously.

[pMASTER]

The sooner we leave Afghanistan, the better - at least as long as most of NATOs governments still won't accept a more resolute approach to deal with the insurgency of Islamic fanatics.

How many Brits (and Americans, and Dutchies (...)) died in Iraq? Now look what they've done with the freedom you brought to them by the blood of your troops: Iraq's "Moral Police" has stoned dozens of "emos" and gays over the past weeks, say human rights activists. Their depiction of "emos" sounds as if it had been taken right out of the Malleus Maleficarum.

(Link in German)

[JdB]

Now look what they've done with the freedom you brought to them by the blood of your troops

The irony is that previously they supposedly didn't have the freedom to (democratically) choose, now they do. Of course any sane unbiased thinker knew it was going to mean more death, prosecution and repression, but that thought of course never crossed the mind of a politician, they are just interested in getting their money from the arms and oil industries.

[pMASTER]

Well I guess freedom of choice also includes the choice to forfeit your freedoms.
In what a nice world could we be living had Mother Earth given us a greater share of oil and whatnot. Because then we wouldn't have to bother at all about that backwards-minded black sea.

[Elliot Carver]

I look forward to the day when Jeremy Paxman sits down with "former Prime -name-" and asks him 'who was more successful in Afghanistan, us or the Russians?

[pMASTER]

The correct answer is: The Afghans.

[JdB]

The correct answer is: The Afghans.

The Pakistanis.

[pMASTER]

True enough.

[Elliot Carver]

I liked the bit where no one blamed the Iranians just because they are kinda talking to us again