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Wittmann
post Sep 2 2007, 02:36
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Brat has got a 48 hour PR for posting outside moderation feedback again, if he had done it here, he would have been fine. At the end of the day, Brat never liked JdB so I think this is the issue.

Ive reminded everyone in our little secret world domination forum that moderators and admins consider the member, if they have committed the offence before and in what context the action was done before action will be taken, a PM and an edit into the post saying 'please dont do this again' will still be the preferred action for minor things as we know it works well here and we usually have no trouble with the regulars once this is done, you guys generally take it on board and dont do it again, which is great. I dont want to drive anyone away without good reason.

However, those who start a crusade outside this thread, will get our wrath, that's one rule we do enforce heavily. Thanks to those who did put their 2 cents in here. At the end of the day also, if your not happy with a moderation decision AFTER posting here, PM Deadeye or myself as the admin's and we will look into it and see if we can do anything, but no promises.


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Rewan
post Sep 2 2007, 11:33
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I begin to think that there will be more rules than active members if JdB stay as an mod...


Well just a thought tongue.gif


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Wittmann
post Sep 2 2007, 13:45
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Id rather him a mod than you though tongue.gif


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Rewan
post Sep 2 2007, 18:43
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I don't care about being a mod or not:

I just want a peacefull forum...


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The Lord
post Sep 2 2007, 22:02
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Oh dear god, not this again!

I think I am getting Dejavu!!


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JdB
post Sep 2 2007, 23:03
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QUOTE
This thread however is not a place to flame moderation staff or spam, all posts must abide by forum rules and must discuss valid issues or raise a valid idea or point.


After reading the first post of this thread, it seems that the last few posts don't exactly fill the "requirement" for discussing valid issues or raising valid points. It's just sheer terror (understandable), through mild spam, not backed up by any kind of well formulated opinion making use of facts or well thought out sentences.

(Took me a while to come up with that cool.gif )

If you want to get anything done around here, you need to come up with something better put into writing, members of the moderating staff are notoriously lazy happy.gif


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Wittmann
post Sep 3 2007, 03:21
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Personally aside from Brat launching a minor insurrection of his own I haven't seen much outside the usual going on. Much ado about nothing really. If you are following the rules or heed a 'please dont do that again' PM or edit, you've nothing to worry about...same place. If Homer had the time to stay on god knows he would probably be MORE of a hard ass, you've just been used to living in sin for too long with myself so busy tongue.gif

Now you all behave or we will actually LET JdB MEET Cervo, and we will also give Rewan moderation rights for a day and tell him to go nuts.
Dont make me turn this forum around... wink.gif


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brataccas
post Sep 4 2007, 12:34
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QUOTE(BigglesTrevor @ Sep 1 2007, 15:43) *
i must say i found the pr'ing of brat to be a little harsh.


absaloutly.

QUOTE(BigglesTrevor @ Sep 1 2007, 15:43) *
i think with our community being its size (and also the thread in question) rules like the one mentioned can be turned a blind eye too aslong as they dont happen often.


I agree with this, I consider quite a lot of people here my actual friends because the joy of meeting people online means you can know a bit/lot about them and you may want to meet up, Ive actually met one person for real on ofp.info and plan to make it a second (bence from arma.eu) as he is coming to scotland) I havent met him for real but we know each well so when we meet it makes it easier to get to know even faster kinda thing, so the same rule applies to everyone here, If I got the chance to meet any of you I would do so. that PRing of me is like a group of people or friends ie the regulars in this forum, we have known each other for years online, biggles, witty, d@ve etc many others, even I consider witty a good m8 to talk to yet witty would rather PR me as if im some kinda spambot, so these stupid rules these mods have really ruin the forum sad.gif

QUOTE(BigglesTrevor @ Sep 1 2007, 15:43) *
Perhaps brat deserved it as to the sheer cheekyness, however i dont feel the initial warning after pmasters post needed to really be made. it all seemed a bit....pointless. Its not asif pmaster did somthing that is a regular annoyance for the moderators (eg. posting a pic over 100kb). Its sort of like political correctness.


It was a bit cheeky ye but I was proving a point that its silly warning someone for posting a single smiley, I mean omg, I actually told a few of my friends this (reallife) and they were in stiches of laughter smile.gif, assumed the ppl were weird geeks lol with literally nothing else to do in their short lives, but ye if you hadnt PRed me and let me be then you woudnt of got all this flak, its almost as though you were egging me on kinda thing, sad.

QUOTE(JdB @ Sep 1 2007, 18:36) *
It's as much a rule as those preventing warez and porn being posted on these forums, adverts being made for commercial services, and as such it will be enforced. Just because some rules may look innocent, or there is no moderator around to enforce them, does not mean they don't have to be followed, if a rule was not needed then it would not exist, and like Wittmann already explained we are quite happy with the current set of rules, and have no plans to alter them.


thats really sad when you look at that, because its as if the forum is treating its members as though they need their hand held constantly, this is a peaceful forum, and the rules are way too strong, hence why this forum could of had a lot of members, and its prob the reason why so many left ofp.info aswell, (before arma release etc)

quote: "Everything was ok until Lthunter came back"

not my words but ye, "they" have a point.

QUOTE(JdB @ Sep 1 2007, 18:36) *
Brattaccas made a mockery of the forum staff by doing exactly what had been asked not to do only a few posts above. As such this rule applied:
If you read this through, you will also see that discussing the moderators' decision like pMaster did is not allowed in the thread itself. Such things are preferably done by PM, or the Moderation Feedback Thread. It exists for a reason: to keep the other topics free of bickering smile.gif


proving a point ye. to show up how bad the forum is, rules wise.

Ironic how you say free of bickering when you just created more "bickering" when you PRed me, so as I said if you just let it drop there would be less mess smile.gif

QUOTE(BigglesTrevor @ Sep 2 2007, 00:06) *
and that is why i have posted here and not there. I just fear with such a smalll community heavy strict by the rail moderation could put alot of people off.


very true, this forum has a lot of potential if the staff werent so heavy handed, and happy trigger with the PR buttons smile.gif It probably "coudnt" put people off it HAS done so smile.gif

QUOTE(Elliot Carver @ Sep 2 2007, 02:11) *
Lo folks,

I have to agree with Trev here. Were a small community of 20 regular posting 'mature' friends who chat amongst ourselves and provide a service to those who have problems. We all know each other by first name, we know where we all live and we've known each other for years. Too the letter moderation will only upset and alienate people. Were all equal here, we have to be with such low numbers. I talked about my kicking from BiForums last week in the community chatter thread. It was against the rules but it was topical. We had a chat about it and later witty reminded us that it wast really allowd and that was that. Moderators need to reactively enforce the rules. They need to be sensible, communicate and support people as they are the backbone of the community there to ensure the smooth running of the forum.

The results of a mod team going wrong on a forum can be seen on the BIForums.


Lets not end up there.
thanks, Carver


I agree with all that, everyone must think im an idiot or spamming noob but not anymore apart from arma.eu for other reasons... BI forums are a shithole, its minging, cold and downright unfriendly, my first impressions of this forum was good until now, it has a warm feel to it, ppl u know etc, only to be ruined by the moderators themselves, not cool.

QUOTE(Wittmann @ Sep 2 2007, 02:36) *
Brat has got a 48 hour PR for posting outside moderation feedback again,


you are too kind, xmas come early?


QUOTE(Wittmann @ Sep 2 2007, 02:36) *
Brat never liked JdB so I think this is the issue.


Ive never said that and I never will, plz dont bullshit

QUOTE(Wittmann @ Sep 2 2007, 02:36) *
Dont make me turn this forum around...


maybe you should, it was much better that way.






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Wittmann
post Sep 4 2007, 14:23
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Well the state I inherited OFP.info in begs to differ. Rules are rules. Its the way of the world. Agree with them, disagree with them...whatever. But they must be followed. Its not personal Brat, anyone who breaks the rules has to deal with the consequences. Maybe my view is thus as I come from family with a strong element serving in the Police? But regardless, in the real world, if you break the established laws of a society, you will be punished. You can say certain things, do pretty much as you wish, but there is a line. Its the same here. Id rather not PR you but on the same token, Im not going to let you off scot free (No pun intended) just because I like you.


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pMASTER
post Sep 4 2007, 14:24
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Folks we must stay honest...We simply were not accustomed to moderation of this forum anymore. Some of the rules really appear to be totally pointless but one argument of Witty convinced me: We accepted the rules when we registered once.


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D@V£
post Sep 4 2007, 15:29
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While Wittmann does have a point, I have to agree with Bratty. There's a difference between enforcing the rules and running a personal vendetta. Do you seriously think that if it was say, Carver, who made that post he would have gotten the same level of punishment as Bratty?


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Wittmann
post Sep 4 2007, 15:37
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If he pushed it after the first warning, yes. I dont make distinctions for repeat offenders. Hell, I like Bratty. It could have been anyone, for not using this thread for discussion a moderation decision AFTER being warned, 48 hours and only one WB is fairy lenient.


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pMASTER
post Sep 4 2007, 15:39
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QUOTE(D@V£)
While Wittmann does have a point, I have to agree with Bratty. There's a difference between enforcing the rules and running a personal vendetta. Do you seriously think that if it was say, Carver, who made that post he would have gotten the same level of punishment as Bratty?

Why a Vendetta?! What does JdB have against Bratty?


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Wittmann
post Sep 4 2007, 15:43
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There is no vendetta. We believe in equality of evildoing.
If I believed JdB had a vendetta against anyone, he would not have been offered a moderation position. Those who get personal do not keep their job long.


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pMASTER
post Sep 4 2007, 16:17
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Maybe D@V£ meant that Bratty as our Spam-Star is earmarked so to say...


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The Lord
post Sep 4 2007, 16:36
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QUOTE(Wittmann @ Sep 4 2007, 15:43) *
There is no vendetta. We believe in equality of evildoing.
If I believed JdB had a vendetta against anyone, he would not have been offered a moderation position. Those who get personal do not keep their job long.



Surely you know he left his position of moderator at ofp.info not because he was finished but through heavy handed moderating?


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pMASTER
post Sep 4 2007, 16:37
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QUOTE(The Lord @ Sep 4 2007, 17:36) *
Surely you know he left his position of moderator at ofp.info not because he was finished but through heavy handed moderating?


Don't want to gossip, but what has happened? That was before my time.


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JdB
post Sep 4 2007, 16:47
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QUOTE(pMASTER @ Sep 4 2007, 17:17) *
Maybe D@V£ meant that Bratty as our Spam-Star is earmarked so to say...


You could also start to wonder why you called him "Spam-Star", there has got to be a reason in the way Brataccas posts that makes you call him that wink.gif

No one is punished more or less than any other member. If it had been pMaster (Server Team) quoting my request to stop posting one smiley replies and posting a single smiley in return, he would have gotten the same PR that Brataccas got.

If a moderator/administrator breaks the rules repeatedly and on purpose, we'd discuss it in the Moderator section of the forums (since giving WB and/or PR's is not always possible depending on usergroups). If done often enough, it may very well result in that forum staff member being replaced.

The only person that can do pretty much everything on this forum is Cervo, since he is paying for the costs of the server, licenses etc. If you aren't paying for all those costs you're going to have to follow the same rules that you agreed to when registering just like everybody else does.

Brataccas, the rules on this forum are already more relaxed, and just like on every other forum the rules that exist will be enforced. Some forums (without going into details) wouldn't send a polite request to change posting behaviour first like we do for all but the most serious offenses (posting warez, cracks, porn etc), but would switch to the "hamer-method" immediatly.

You can "Spam" in the "Chatter, Word Games & Jokes" section as long as it is in understandable English not containing any disallowed content (beforementioned warez, cracks, porn etc), flame(baiting), and is on-topic (except for the Community Chatter thread, which is by design a collection of all kinds of subjects). A single smiley adds nothing to a conversation whatever the topic may be.

The rules and moderating cannot be any more relaxed without degrading into the mess full of flaming kids that the old OFP.info forums were around 2002.

I left OFP.info because of a difference of opinion with Cervo, nothing to do with the way I moderated. People wanted me gone because I enforced the rules, and they weren't used to that. They thought they could make a change by childish means (flaming, insulting PM's etc). The Lord is one of those other people that didn't like that way of moderating, partially because the rules were written too strictly (edited from BIS forums), not necessarily the way I enforced them (by doing exactly what I'm doing now, enforcing the rules).


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Wittmann
post Sep 4 2007, 16:51
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Yes, I am aware of what happened as I gained my position shortly thereafter and was in the community at the time. However;

1) People change and we are all adults now. Alot happens over time to change us or open our eyes.
2) We have 2 admins ABOVE JdB as moderator, so actions can be reviewed if deemed necessary and outcomes changed.
3) What happened is in the past and several years have gone by. This is a new community in a way and I think considering JdBs standing in the community, his dedication to it and his attitude, he is fit for the job and that is why he has accepted a trial period as moderator.

I also recall Lord that you were opposed rather vocally at this time to his actions, but, people change and I am not one to hold a grudge, especially in an internet community. Do you?
Because I would hate to see a group of people start kicking up a fuss over mistakes made in the past, when if anyone else had been appointed it would not happen.

At the end of the day finding the best person to replace Homer was my decision, and mine alone. So if anyone is to have any ISSUES, its with ME.


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pMASTER
post Sep 4 2007, 16:53
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However, the question arises whether The Lord's statement has a true core. Again, I don't want neither to gossip nor to give offense, though it would be interesting to know the background.
edit
Ok I cut it out. Apparently the hatched is buried.

My personal theory is still that we simply were not accustomed to moderation of this forum anymore because CoPeTe and King Homer have become rare guests.


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