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> email to google and wrong translators, wrong words in translators
vilas
post Mar 18 2010, 09:03
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i know it will sound "weird" but have ye ever tried to contact Google ???
biggest website across the world has no email ?

http://www.armaholic.eu/vilas/foto/IMG_0431.JPG
http://www.armaholic.eu/vilas/foto/IMG_0430.JPG

http://www.createforum.com/vilas/viewtopic...mp;mforum=vilas

if you can read this topic , you will understand ALL
i would like to contact (by email, i have no money to waste to call to USA) but someone who made some translations and not cares should get / ought to kick in the ***

on the internet people even joke about "how is it possible to contact google"
the only thing that is, is phone number, but i don't want call Polish Google, i would better be happy if "bosses" of them will see "what they made"

i believe in "old dictionary is not proper at present time", okay,... but not on-line new translators, dictionaries and etc.



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pMASTER
post Mar 18 2010, 09:59
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Contacting Google is easy, just click at "About Google" below the search form.
By the way, I don't quite exactly understand your problem. I cannot imagine any dictionary which would offer "Nigger" as a translation for words meant to mean "Negro" or "Afro-American" and whatnot.


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vilas
post Mar 18 2010, 10:13
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i will explain problem:

1) have you tried found email "about us" ???
i tried, there are only phone numbers

2)
QUOTE
I cannot imagine any dictionary which would offer


so SINCE this moment you CAN

problems with those words (remember, i am not native i use dictionaries, i use translators, i was taught in school from old dictionaries) caused my problems
i was called racist and banned from BIS forum because of wrong translations

when i say something in my own language it is not racist, when i used translation they treated me like a racist

not only this, in this translator "pathetic" is translated as positive words too
look at "pathetic" picture number 431
it is translated as:
1) causing pathos, monumental
2) charming, causing emotions, moving heart
3) dramatic
4) moody
5) worthless

please study my topic (link given) and you will see also that i asked on BIS forums about "misleading meaning of words for non native speakers"
i am still learning English
i learned it 1989-1993, later 1993-1997 from "old books" that were using 70-80s vocabulary in which "n" word is not wrong, cause it was than normal word (we had no racial segregation in Eastern block, we had no slavery etc.)
for us this word was "usual word as Asian, Hindu, Indian (root American), Caucasian"

i started to seek for meanings in ENglish language (asking on BIS forum about nuances of not native for me - language)
and in one sentence (when we talked about Cold War era i said that our system was not bad, cause we had no KKK who beaten "n" (Black people)
and it caused problem
cause for me (till that moment) "n" was "usual word without anything wrong" also my person who lived some years in Republic of South Africa was using this (i know old engineer who worked there and he helped me few times in English language (as person who spent 30 years in RSA ) )
for me there was no reason to think that sentence that in eastern block (place where i ve grown) was not evil empire and we had no ghettos, homeless people, problems and we had no KKK who beaten "n" will cause problems

this was used in sentence about life in cold war and about "equality of socialistic society" (i was 12 years old when communism collapsed in Poland and now i feel pain and sorrow seeing homeless people on streets and economic divisions between classes )

i am person who is against racism and used this "n" word in discussion about politics, giving as example ratial divisions in US in 50s , 60s and KKK activity there (we knew from TV about killing Black people and never punished killers)

so i used it in sentence about equality of people and it was reported as racism

as you see this and "pathetic" - it is fault of old dictionary (i was yesterday in Library and i saw that Dictionary printed in 2000 has "Black People" "Black Gent." "Afro-American (USA)" words
but dictionaries from 70s, 80s has others
but on-line dictionary has other
but google translator has other

and word pathetic

imagine someone want to say POSITIVE opinion about you
you make movie, music
it touched emotions and feeling of this person
he used THIS dictionary and say "your movie/music/art is pathetic"

you feel bad
and that person is surprised "what, i said something positive"

This post has been edited by vilas: Mar 18 2010, 10:33


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pMASTER
post Mar 18 2010, 11:59
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I don't mean offence, but you cannot expect others who may know the language better than you to be considerate of the gaps in your language skills.
I don't get your reference to the word "pathetic" either. The meaning of a word does always depend on the context and especially it will depend on the user's point of view.

A simple example: a public military parade. Some people will be against it, arguing that the military shouldn't be glorified. Others however will praise the opportunity to thank their troops. Both parties will call the parade "pathetic", the opponents because they don't like the pathos around it - adding a negative context to it - and the proponents because they feel the pathos is right and due.


"Nigger" however is beyond all doubts a pejorative word. And I dare say this is common knowledge for everybody who has ever heard something about Afro-Americans. And you cannot expect from a - presumably white - Saffie to correctly dub black people if you know anything about South Africas history.

I don't know how many previous warnings you had over at the BI forums. If there were none, I'd say a ban is too harsh. However, ignorance is no excuse.


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vilas
post Mar 18 2010, 12:15
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but now i was told by people who know English as native, that pathetic is only "bad" word
is says "something is sh*t"
so translator which show positive meaning is wrong
and "n" word... if you use mostly technical language, learn grammar, you don't look at other meanings (specially when you not have this racism in mind, you simply not care about this cause you see nothing wrong with words you see in translator)
if in 20-30 years dictionaries changed, than in previous time (70s, 80s) here we seen nothing wrong, it was just another word
and also whole sentence sens should be taken under account, specialy when someone knows that other person is not native speaker and when that person sets up topic to explain him meaning of words in not-native language :
http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=96338
i had doubts to some words, so i asked about them for example

now i know that "n" is beyond doubts (in Polish we would say "without doubts")
but is it ignorance ?
sory, can i have doubts if you not know words in my language and call you ignorant ?
people from west think that whole world MUST know English, no we have our own languages
the same someone can say "you must learn Polish, Russian"
do you know difference between "katol" and "katolik" ? are you ignorant ?
do you know difference between "ty" and "Ty" ???
in ENglish we write I big letter in Polish if you write "you" not "You" it means you not respect him
cause Ty, Tobie, Twoje you write from big letter to show respect
so are you ignorant ?
someone who writes himself from big letter is considered as ego-asshole
noone will write " Ja, Moje, Mój" cause it would mean "this guy is cyco and thinks he is very very very very important"

the same rulez are in Russian language

ooo Russian and russian , if someone who is not "fluent" in English is called ignorant ??? than what to someone who not knows Polish and Russian FLUENTLY ???
in Polish "big letter is nationality, small letter is adjective"
Russian (man) bought russian car , so ???
this car is russian, red, white, sport car etc. but this guy is Russian etc.

if someone who not knows all aspects of not native language is considered as ignorant, than what to people that do not know German, RUssian, Polish, Czech, French languages with all aspects ??

This post has been edited by vilas: Mar 18 2010, 12:30


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pMASTER
post Mar 18 2010, 12:33
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If I did chat in Polish with you and unintentionally used a word I hadn't known but which is in fact offensive to Poles, wouldn't you get offended?

Or take another example: you do know the "victory" sign, expressing great assuredness and hope?



If the fingers show inward however, every Briton will take this sign as a very serious insult. So if you as a foreigner - not attaching any evil meaning to it - go into a pub and order two beers, you shouldn't do it with the fingers showing inward. You didn't mean any offence, but the Briton, not knowing you or you intentions, will sure as hell take it as such because he's only familiar with the insultive meaning of the gesture.

Can he expect from you not to make this mistake? No. Can you expect from him not to get angy at you? No.


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vilas
post Mar 18 2010, 12:44
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wise people should realize that foreigner not knows all
and should not get angry
it's like in law
when lawyer written application to bureau - you point his mistakes, cause it is his duty to know it (by education and job and function)
if citizen written application without lawyer - you explain him in letter all details (at least some institutions do it properly)

such things were even prescribed in LAW codex that man without lawyer must be informed about something etc.

so if foreigner who first asks about help in misleading other language (as proof you see language topic link) , than using translator, on-line dictionary makes mistake... he cannot be treated like person who was born in UK or US

i agree on "learning me" by moderation, but i don't feel guilty at all and be punished such term
specially when word was used in sentence that had opposite to racism sense !

you should know punk-rockers subculture and their attitude to skinheads
now imagine that punk-rocker from country like mine says "me not like skinheads cause they kick "n" "
and now people shout "this punk-rocker is racist , punish him" ????
it is stupid , don't you think so ?
--------
but i shown photos taken on monitor with Google Translator
and i was told that "pathetic" has only "bad" meaning, so ... should not be such translated and should not appear in this form on Google sad.gif

This post has been edited by vilas: Mar 18 2010, 12:45


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pMASTER
post Mar 18 2010, 12:55
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"Pathetic" can have a negative meaning and is mainly used in a negative context nowadayss. That doesn't change the fact though that it also has a positive meaning, which is of course still in usage.



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vilas
post Mar 19 2010, 10:35
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during yesterday's talk with Russians i found reason why this word appears in our langage :]
speaking with Russians (who have the same "slavian" root of language , but different alphabet) i found:

- in Russian, Polish... etc. "murzyn" "negr ( негр )" is neutral , oposite to "czarny"
in Polish "czarny" is offensive
when you will take any dictionary you will see "czarny = Black"
thats why i haven't used "Black", i was afraid that this word is offensive
cause in my language (and Russian, but i don't know how in other slavian languages) "czarny" is offensive and "murzyn / negr/ rasa negroidalna" are "official technical terms" without anything bad in mind
"czarny (black)" will say Skinhead

in our language Czarny is :
- color black ( RGB 0,0,0 )
- defacing word about priest (noun is Linux , Pinguin )
- medium strength (not worst) defacing word about the Black People
- something dirty "cały czarny jesteś" = "you get dirty all yourself"
if someone would like to say wrong thing about person from Africa he would for sure used word that is translated as Black

so i simply was afraid to use word "Black" as is strictly translated to "Czarny" in my language

as you see - "thinking in Polish, typeing in English - makes problems"

the same example :
- how are you ?
- i'm fine...
for Brits or Americans it is like "good morning"
in my country when you ask "how are you?" it means "what is your mood today"
everyone has problems, so NOONE will say "i'm fine" unles he won lottery milion dollars and has harem full of beauties
if someone parent is ill, dog died, car is broken, he will say "i am not fine, this problem, that problem"

for us, for our "culture" it is weird that Americans say "i'm fine" no matter what problems he has in family

like in UK, US , generally in English i observe, everyone is talking using "you", so worker say to boss "you"

in my culture "you" we say only to people we know and they are our friends
if you not know someone, or he is not your friend (like in job, official relations) we speak "proszę Pana" "proszę Pani" (dear sir, dear madam)
for us "can you tell me this, can you give me this" is when you speak to person with close relations or when you feel stronger (like Policeman to drunkard say without respect)
your boss can say "podaj mi to" but you can't , cause he is stronger
director to worker:
- have you got time now to make something and help us in warehouse ?
worker do director:
- yes, i can help sir, i have time i finished my job in this room (not i can help You)
but if you was strictly translating Polish it would be "dear sir, can you please give me this, dear sir, i would like to ask you to giving me that " etc.

you know "savoir vivre" etc.

of course if you will take new edition dictionary (which i hadn't had in home)
you will notice:
czarny: black (color), n*** (pejorative)
murzyn: Black

but in new dictionaries, before yesterday i was in Library and i looked at new printed dictionary
THE SAME SHOULD BE IN GOOGLE TRANSLATOR !!!

o and by the way is there a difference between big and small letter here ??
black, Black ???

This post has been edited by vilas: Mar 19 2010, 10:46


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vilas
post Mar 25 2010, 11:23
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today's discover on translator :

"mogę sie założyć" > "i can not assume" instead of "i bet"


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topas
post Mar 25 2010, 20:52
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Where? On Google??


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vilas
post Mar 25 2010, 21:15
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???



how is it possible that you have other translation than me using THE SAME translator

when i was writing my post above i was using PC from work (other than now in home)

BOTH 2 PCs gave the same result, one in morning other in evening
in job i have Firefox in home Opera, so even 2 different browsers, 2 different PCs and on BOTH i had the same result
and you have "proper" translation on yours ?? how ??? miracle ?

This post has been edited by vilas: Mar 25 2010, 21:26


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topas
post Mar 26 2010, 01:08
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?????

No idea man...
I pasted 'mogę sie założyć' straight from your post above into the translator and made a screen right after that...

Using Firefox 3.0.18


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vilas
post Mar 26 2010, 10:45
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i found how this sh*t works :

when i copy-paste TEXT written in Polish before (for example WORD, Notepad etc. as we usually do to not lost data due to for example broken internet connection or wrong page work) it gives "I can not assume"
when i TYPE text in Polish in fill-in form window than it gives "I bet"

but still "n" word appear, i wrote to them SECOND time yesterday to delete this word that can make problems for Poles with using and to correct "pathetic"
i wait will it be fixed
for my fill-in message (over week ago) there was ZERO reaction, nothing fixed
yesterday i wrote to them SECOND time to delete "n" word and fix "pathetic"

i just feel sorry for people who may have troubles in US if instead of "i love charming Black music" will say "your n* music is pathetic" < because of wrong translators and on-line dictionaries !!!

This post has been edited by vilas: Mar 26 2010, 10:49


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pMASTER
post Mar 26 2010, 11:00
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The only time GT translates a word with "Nigger" for me was quite exactly the time where I typed "Nigger" into the my language's form. I don't know what you do to get such silly results but GT is no good and fair translator either.

The thread you've opened is going to lose its right to live. We will close it if you haven't got any significant to add.


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